SOMEbody doesn't like this war!

Johnny Autonmous, 19.03.2007 20:00

A well coordinated attack on an Army recruiting station leaves the public speechless and the cops confused!

[125 responses...]

Says it all!

An angry mob, chanting slogans and lighting up the night sky make a statement against the USA war in Iraq.

More photos 19.03.2007 - 20:34 LOVE THE ARMY HATE THE ARMY Off clock Dominoes guy . Johnny Autonmous> Woooo Hoooo!!! 19.03.2007 - 21:04 Wooooo Hoooooo!!! Confused cops? Since when are they any other way? They are always confused between the power of the people and the power of the state. Intelligence? They don't got any. The people know what time it is, it's time to organize! All power to the people. Lucy Parsons> Violence Achieves Nothing 19.03.2007 - 21:13 One man's revolutionary is another man’s fundamentalist. You’re discrediting the whole anti-war movement! Violence against person or property is wrong and just fuels more hate. I’m disappointed. The Voice of Milwaukee> fuckin shit up 19.03.2007 - 22:21 and what did peace action do to accomplish shit? this is one of the most powerful things i've been related with in a while and fuck you if you don't think it's accomplishing shit. all the people see this on the news, they can learn that we're fucking pissed. we don't fuck around anon> some great social statements here. 20.03.2007 - 00:03 Hey "voice of milwaukee." Tell that to Michael Cullen and Phil Berrigan. Property destruction never solves anything? They burned draft notices with homemade napalm. Right there on Wisconsin Avenue.  http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/arch/nhd2005/htm/vietnam.htm How about we have a real discussion of whether (or when) property destruction is actually violence and when it is not. That would sure beat a condescending catfight anywhere. I'll tell you what sets back our movement... marco> get a life moonbats 20.03.2007 - 03:29 morons. somebody should rub the excrement you smeared on the inside in your faces. army vet> right on 20.03.2007 - 05:02 i went to the peace action rally on saturday...almost fell asleep. i left that rally feeling depressed, and ineffectual. and then i thought, well, at least we made a statement that the people of milwaukee will hear. and then...nothing. no press coverage. i couldnt even find a mention anywhere. i guess we didnt make a statement. this here rally last night, well, at least their message was heard. good job folks. bored> NPR Report 20.03.2007 - 06:28 Hey Kids, I just heard on NPR that 6 people were "cited" by police for this action. Anyone know the details about the citations or arrests? Anonymous> protest tactics 20.03.2007 - 07:37 Why do people feel that this type of action is the only alternative to a Peace Action, family-oriented style protest? There are many other methods, tactics, and ideas that don't have to help the media demonize the anti-war movement and left in general. Let's get truly creative! Because right now, you are doing the work of FBI infiltrators/instigators, but as volunteers! The oligarchy and right wing of the country is falling more and more in love with the anarchist movement every day. steve> Big Deal 20.03.2007 - 07:41 Congrats, kiddies. You got some ink. You broke some windows. That should bring the troops home any day now, huh? You guys are angry, and I can relate, anyone who's been awake for the last four years (not too many, sadly) is angry. And having broken a window or two I am not about to rip you guys for doing the same. But getting all dressed up and playing guerrilla ninja protest warrior is the easy part. Now what are you going to do? Just being loud and breaking stuff may make you feel good and may draw the attention of the lapdog media for a few seconds. But now what do you do? Yeah, right, dude, the people will see you're pissed. That's like, so incredibly interesting. Put that together with two bucks and you can buy a cup of coffee at Willow Creek. The challenge is to come up with something that serves an interest that's broader and more worthwhile than letting you blow off steam and making you feel good. Otherwise you're just like those losers who break windows on State Street in Madison every time a sports team wins a big game. What are you going to do? C'mon, don't be shy. beenthere> clarifications 20.03.2007 - 08:09 twenty one people were arrested last night as a result of this action. the charges as of now are disorderly conduct, but more serious charges may be forthcoming. as for the comments on this action- 1) over 3000 US service men have died in a war that does not benefit them. 650,000 iraqis have died as a direct result of imperialistic actions of the US. this has been going on for four years now and more people die every day. maybe for some people in this country it that is easy to not have a ton of rage about but not us. 2) sign holding and chanting has never stopped a war. it will never stop a war alone. we need a diversity of tactics that includes those things and militant actions like last night. we have to make every attempt to throw a wrench in the works of the war machine. 3) people involved in last night are involved in other community organizing. it's not an either/or situation it's a we need it all situation. 4) we need to have some goddamn solidarity in this movement. it's one thing to be critical but we need to have eachothers backs in all things. as long as this war continues we need to do all that we can to stop it. ARA kid> solidarity and support 20.03.2007 - 08:22 Let us know of any need for solidarity and support. IF any funds or bodies are needed to help out just say the word. Thank you those of you who particiated in this action and chose to seek other outlets than just pretending and imagining it will all get better by holding a sign, your courage inspires us all. Love and Solidarity. nestor> goodness 20.03.2007 - 08:30 Some repsonses to the haters: Dear 'The Voice of Milwaukee': guess what? those that hate anti-war protestors hate you just as much as the window breaking kind, even if you pass out flowers all day and hold a peace sign in a peaceful march. look at the counter-demonstrators in DC this past weekend. dear 'steve': those are some heavy accusations. you shouldn't throw that shit around lightly. those same things have been said about the more radical elements of every single movement. and you know what, the moderate elements in a movement gain more legitimacy by not being seen as the radical edge. look at the civil rights movement. dr. king had negotiating power because he could say, look, you either start making these concessions or there will be riots in the streets. so militant tactics have a place and you need to realize that you only look moderate because there is more militant folks willing to risk repression to start making this war have real costs at home. also, why is anyone worried about the 'anti-war movement' getting bad press?!? the country already agrees with us. that's why those marches are SO ineffectual: because almost everyone already AGREES. it's time to move on to the next phase of the movement, the phase where you actually start DOING SOMETHING TO TRY AND STOP THE WAR, instead of trying to 'educate the public' and 'get good press', because people are already in agreement. they don't come to te marches because they see it does no good. if all you marchers would put energy into taking action to stop the war instead of actions to try and publicize your dissent and you started being effective i bet a lot more people would join in, or at least begin supporting you in a serious way. it's time to fight back, the public is already on our side! ha> in solidarity 20.03.2007 - 08:36 Hey all I am so proud of all of you. Your bravey, determination, motivation, passion, and love inspire me. I am sorry I couldn't be there with you. I'll pass word on to my Philly people today at a M20 rally at UPenn. Much love from Philly! p.s. I will donate money when I get home next week. taylor> THANK YOU! 20.03.2007 - 09:08 I paintbombed and attempted to break the windows of one up north and got caught. Now I have a hefty fine and a load of court date ahead of me. So thank you for avenging me! Yours Truely, XCX OF JTFC PS: To all those who say, violence doesn't solve anything. Property destruction is not violence, it is even recognized that way by the law books. If you don't think it does anything read up about the Boston Tea Party for one example. XCX OF JTFC> mix it up, do it again 20.03.2007 - 09:15 one of the principles i've learned in my studies as a wildlife ecologist is that to make a difference with large populations of beings that cannot be easily communicated with, you have to be diverse and frequent. this act alone may not have done a whole lot, as evidenced by the other side being rather sarcastic at the futility of the operation. however, if you keep it going weekly while changing the location you do it at, you will get even more coverage. same with the fliers. don't stop with one day. go print some more and put them up again, changing the locations slightly. variety and frequency will produce notoriety. vary the protests themselves, as well. most people can't relate to the anarchist approach to protesting because it is intimidating. but it is a great tool to gain initial attention before the numbers grow large enough to really make a difference. if you don't repeat and vary, breaking a few windows will, in fact, be nothing but futile. dog walker> Pawns as usual 20.03.2007 - 09:35 So, thump your chests all you want, nothing was achieved. I don't even have to see the headlines to know how they will play. This action does not speak for a majority of anyone, and I'm speaking of the GROWING majority that no longer supports the war. As far as concerted action against the war, you've pretty much shit your nest. "Its On (skull and crossbones)," "No war but class war" Is it possible to sound more like an out-of-control, adolescent male? Just gimme some action. Its easier than thinking. stevek> Clarification 20.03.2007 - 09:50 To clarify, I would agree that peace action protests achieve nothing. Peace action is, well, peace action. As for goodness, I don’t think Martin Luther King ever said start making these connections or there will be riots in the streets. If he ever did, please me know when. I would love to see that quote. My comments were to indicate that Americans as a whole are very cautious of any extremist or fundamental ideology. As goodness said, “The moderate elements in a movement gain more legitimacy by not being seen as the radical edge.” I agree. I’m not against direct action, but if you need to cover your face to do. It’s not going to be effective. And Goodness, I strongly agree that at this point there is no need to persuade the general public. It really doesn’t matter, if all of Milwaukee knows that 20 people are angry about the war. Everyone at this point is. I do believe moving to that next phase of doing something about the war is where people’s frustrations are coming from. Personally, I really don’t know where to go from here. Any ideas? The Voice of Milwaukee> Making a Difference? 20.03.2007 - 10:06 While I completely dissagree with this war and can definately understand the frustration, I don't believe taking destructive action such as this will accomplish much. While you say little will be achieved through peaceful means, I say the same about breaking windows and smearing feces. I, too, want nothing more than for this war to be over immediately, but it does take time to help change the minds of an entire country. It is true that the majority of Americans are now against this war as well, but it has not always been this way. When I started marching/protesting 4 years ago, those of us in the streets were definately in the minority. We were spit on and yelled at, but we held our ground peacefully. I believe that the combination of war coverage and peaceful assembly has shown our fellow countrymen(including those whose family members are forced to fight for something they don't believe in) how incredibly wrong this administration's war is. Our numbers have grown incredibly, and continue to grow rapidly. I think our protesting can now show our government, without doubt, that the majority of our country is against this war. I agree that we need solidarity, we MUST show our dissent. However, I think it must be done by means of our constitutionally guaranteed rights in order to reach the rest of the nation. While I applaud your spirit, enthusiasm, and willingness to further the cause, I'm afraid the action might be a little short-sighted. As someone else said above, there are many other methods, tactics and ideas, so let's get truly creative! Together with a Dem run Congress, I think we stand a good chance of seeing this chapter of war closed soon. Rutherford> Got some attention here 20.03.2007 - 10:31 Just FYI, JSOnline is now linking directly to this article. EthrDemon> Disappointment 20.03.2007 - 10:34 I am very much against the war. I have also lived my whole life in the area of the protest. It is sad and does nothing but create division among anti-war folks. I would ask that you spend your time volunteering at a local homeless shelter or mentoring the kids of Milwaukee who society has turned their back on. That would make a difference. But that would require a real commitment, something which I am sure most of the offenders (and I watched) do not know the meaning of. Neighbor> my son choses a different fight 20.03.2007 - 11:01 While I can understand that your husband fought in this war I am also proud to say that I am a parent of one of "idiots" that you speak of. I am proud that my son can't sit still and meekly walk in a protest holding a sign. It doesn't seem to matter how many people are against this war that the "Shrub" created it will continue until he is gone. Does it make you feel better that they have their "freedom" now that Saddam is dead. Does it make you proud that their countries people are dying and having to exit their country to be safe? Do we have to do that? Have many of us even been affected by this war?! I think not~! But go about your busy selfserving day and don't think about the Iraqi people and the fact that they never know who will come home at the end of the day. old fart> Cowards 20.03.2007 - 11:33 You really made a point this time...Although, I do not think it was the point you were going for! The only point I got from this is that you all are a bunch of cowards hiding behind masks. It seems to me that you all would like to be tough, but are chickens and the only way you can feel like you are is to hide behind masks and go to a building that is unoccupied and break windows. My goodness, your toughness scares me...NOT. I truly believe that you really could care less about the war and that you are just a bunch of punks who are looking for something to vandilize in the name of, and what a better topic than the war. It does seem that a bunch of you were minors, and I am sure your parents are proud. I wonder where they were last night, probably at the Country club with the rest of there alcoholic friends drinking there Gin and Tonics talking about how "little Bobby" is starting the new soccer season soon. Won't they be happy that instead of sitting at home being vegefied by the x-box "little Bobby" finally was out getting some exercise running the streets breaking some windows. I hope that your parents have to pay for all the damage that was done, because I sure as hell do not want to pay for it with my tax dollars! cb> Fuck YOU 20.03.2007 - 11:37 Hey you fucking PUSSIES. The time IS getting short where we'll meet you motherfuckers in the streets. And you're gonna see that WE DON'T FUCK AROUND EITHER. Here's hoping your get meal ticket punched... Eat Shit> Please dont destroy my city 20.03.2007 - 11:43 While protesting the war may or may not be a good thing, destroying property is not. There is a picture of a smoke bomb going off in the street. What if this cause an accident and killed a family? Way to go hippies! Its OK though, because a family of four not nearly as bad as 3000 people that are defending your right to do this crap. The Boston Tea Party? That was a revolution for the freedoms that you now take for granted, as evidenced by this terrible act. What the fuck is wrong with you people? The poster who spoke about being politically effective was spot on. Once again, why is it cool to break stuff and spread your shit all over? Is that solving anything? Does it solve more that a sensible dialog would? Of course it gets you press, but so does shaving your head like Brittany Spears...Way to go Hippies, real intelligent. Milwaukeean> DESU 20.03.2007 - 11:49 DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU My point exactly. Awesometr0n> Peace? 20.03.2007 - 11:56 I always get a kick out of people who claim they want peace and then perform violence to "further" their cause of peace. Kinda gives you a clue as to their thought process doesn't it? And for the person who was complaining about the 3000 dead soliders and 650,000 dead Iraqi's - answer this - how many people did Saddam kill when he was in power? Millions of people... You people just don't have a clue. Go back to your coffee shops and leave the real work to those that know what is really going on in the world. For the war> Full of **** 20.03.2007 - 11:57 Yea you sure showed 'them'....bunch of assholes. Maybe if you educated yourselves - you might have more credibility. Naaaaah that would mean you were informed with FACTS! All you proved - yet again - is that you really ARE full of ****. Just a little nugget of FACT for y'all: It is because of those "stupid" soldiers that you maintain the right to prove you are assholes. You want the troops home? Don't call on them to help YOU when the islam terrorists blow up YOUR neigbourhoood. Now run along and play - leave the BIG issues to the BIG kids.... brat> Silly Kids 20.03.2007 - 12:03 So a bunch of indoctrinated UWM children decided to follow their 60's anti-war liberal professor's advice to "go out and make a difference." The only problem here is that this is the 21st century and there is no longer a draft. People joining the military today do so as volunteers, because they want to, not because they are forced to by some fascist government. You guys should stop sharing the peace pipe with your teachers and start opening your eyes to what is actually happening in this world. Because not even the liberal dems that you voted for are going side with you on this one. The Man> Good job! 20.03.2007 - 12:07 So what'd this accomplish besides making you feel good about yourselves? Do you really think something stupid like this is going to make the war end sooner? Why don't you support something that's productive, like the Iraq Freedom Congress, instead of doing such immature shit as breaking windows and throwing shit? Probably because you're anarchists. Oh, and this is a little off topic, but why does the burned book mobile sell Che books? Do they not know that Che killed anarchists? And what do they do with the money they earn? Do they actually put it to a cause or do they just keep it like some petty-bourgeois scum that they probably are? My bet's on the latter. KC> People's Property vs. STATE sanctioned MURDER 20.03.2007 - 12:11 DOMESTIC IMPACT OF THE WAR November 1967, National Labor Leadership Assembly for Peace The war in Vietnam has produced a shameful order of priorities in which the decay, squalor and pollution of the cities are neglected. And even though 70% of our population now live in them the war has smothered, and nearly extinguished the beginnings of progress toward racial justice. The war has created the bizarre spectacle of armed forces of the United States fighting in ghetto streets in America while they are fighting in jungles in Asia. The war has so increased Negro frustration and despair that urban outbreaks are now an ugly feature of the American scene. How can the Administration, with quivering anger, denounce the violence of ghetto Negroes when it has given an example of violence in Asia that shocks the world. [Applause] The users of naval guns, millions of tons of bombs, and revolting napalm can not speak to Negroes about violence. Only those who are fighting for peace have the moral authority to lecture on non-violence. [Applause] Now I do not want to be misunderstood. I am not equating the so-called Negro violence with the war. The acts of Negroes are infinitely less dangerous and immoral than the deliberate acts of escalation of the war in Vietnam. [Applause] In fact, the Negroes in the ghetto goaded and angered by discrimination and neglect have for the most part deliberately avoided harming persons. They have destroyed property. But even in the grip of rage the vast majority have vented their anger on inanimate things, not people. If destruction of property is deplorable, what is the word for the use of napalm on people. What would happen to Negroes if they not only set fires but killed people in the vicinity and explained blandly that some known combatants had to die as a matter of course. Negroes would be called savages if we were so callous. But for generals it is military tactics. ON SOME POSITIONS A COWARD ASKED THE QUESTION IS IT SAFE? EXPEDIENCY ASKS THE QUESTION, IS IT POLITIC? VANITY ASKS THE QUESTION, IS IT POPULAR? BUT CONSCIENCE ASKS THE QUESTION IS IT RIGHT? AND THERE COME A TIME WHEN ONE MUST TAKE A POSITION THAT IS NEITHER SAFE NOR POLITIC NOR POPULAR BUT HE MUST TAKE IT BECAUSE CONSCIENCE TELLS HIM IT IS RIGHT. Martin Luther King, Jr.> What a bunch of idiots 20.03.2007 - 12:14 Won't be so funny when the whole lot of you idiots are in the Wisconsin Prison System. Don't bend over in the shower!!! Ha Ha Ha Jules> Disgraceful 20.03.2007 - 12:50 Protesting the war is fine, I also understand that "peaceful" may not fulfill you enough. But when the men and women serving, Those wounded and at home now (including me), and those who safely made it home, DO NOT deserve such treatment. This shows that you don’t support the war, but it also shows you could care less about the men and women that have in the past and are defending you everyday. I am sure that some of you involved know someone who is or was involved with this war. This is as good as saying " Go and die, I don’t care about you" or some other expletative. The actions taken were noting short of cowardly. If there were any soldiers in that building at the time or around it you would have kept walking (if you were smart). Lastly to those who are UWM students. Understand that there are many of your peers who have come home and are trying to get on with life and attend college and what you are doing is not making it any easier on them and the large transition that is taking place. If you can support us then your as worthless to this country as the acts you performed. Anonymous> Pro-Life? 20.03.2007 - 12:54 If these people are really concerned about death, they should protest at a planned parenthood clinic. Hey, I wonder how they felt about Saddamn paying $15,000 to the family of anyone who would kill a Jew. Stu> Peace loving idiots 20.03.2007 - 13:07 Oh yeah you guys really made an intelligent anti-war/peace statment by getting violent and breaking some windows. I hope you enjoy your tickets, maybe your mommys or your professors can hire you a laywer? Make fun of the police being confused? I bet you are the first to call them when you need help right? Oh! but thats part of the government you all dispise right?? I think your a bunch of little scary bitches, you have no idea of what it means to stand up for something, Maybe you should ask the Marine who's served on his/her own freewill? Or a Cop who confronts an armed robber on your behalf? Keep listening to the morons UW-System keeps hiring, maybe someday you can grow up to be just as blind as them! PS-The world is not a nice friendly place. Try to kill a murderer with kindness. Doesn't work does it? GROW UP Carl Carl> HEY MS/MR MODERATOR 20.03.2007 - 13:11 . . . Can you consolidate all these photos? Thx.... Big Tony-Working for Peace> They need A Taste Of Boot Camp 20.03.2007 - 13:21 The people arrested should be thrown in an army boot camp so they can learn about rules , laws and the proper way to behave . There are right ways to protest and wrong ways and smashing windows and throwing human feces around is mob mentality and should be delt with accordingly. I wonder how many of those protesters actually voted? Karl> e-mail:: kook2002kook@yahoo.com Idiots... 20.03.2007 - 13:32 Once again, way to go on looking like idiots and turning the public against you. And they say that neo-nazi's are violent....So, I read that the youngest person arrested is 13. 13!! Recruiting kids again?? I was disgusted before, but this really bothers me. Madison Skinhead> This is a joke 20.03.2007 - 13:35 Your hypocrisy is unreal. You protest the very rights that real men and women are fighting for you to have. Anyone watching the news last night, anti-war or not, thinks you’re a bunch of idiots. If you cowards believe so strongly in the message that you’re trying to send, then why do you run away afterwards? Oh yeah, that’s right. You’re a bunch of chicken shit cowards. Don’t dress in disguise. Fuckin cowards. Fight or Die> e-mail:: downwithcowards@ilovewar.com LEGAL SITUATION 20.03.2007 - 13:35 Do we know what people are charged with? What are people charged with and where are people being held? legally blonde> Media ANONYMOUSLY Looking For MORE PICS/VIDEO 20.03.2007 - 13:37 To Whom Posted These Photos: We are a local network TV affiliate looking to air these photos. Also looking for video. We will protect your identity, or you can anonymously submit the material. Hoping to use for newscasts tonight! Contact: Scotch E-mail ASAP:  scotch999sx@yahoo.com scotch999sx@yahoo.com> e-mail:: scotch999sx@yahoo.com Lives available here....GET ONE you losers! 20.03.2007 - 13:45 Have any one of you 'anti-war' extremist FREAKS actually stopped and re-read your rants or perhaps bothered proofing your submittals before actually sending your comments?!?! Come on now people, use your 5th grade educations before posting comments!!! I am absolutly NOT supporting last night's idiot parade - my younger brother fought in Iraq for you thankless imbeciles - I am not even going to get off on THAT tangent with all of you "anti's" - Herein lies my gripe with you monkeys...YOU ARE PROTESTING THE WAR... VIOLENTLY!!!!!!!!!!.... Hhhhmmm...seems to me as if a certain little 'anti-war' protest group may have taken their hypocrite pills for breakfast yesterday morning! YOU TARDS! If you're going to protest a cause that you believe in - try extending your time and efforts in positive, memorable and noteworthy manners...perhaps giving your efforts a hint of legitimacy! Smearing your own monkey-poo all over the Army recruitment office windows, setting off smoke bombs, throwing paint and smashing windows are HARDLY viewable to the general public as legitimate means of gaining interest or support for your cause! Stay off the hypocrite juice and use the restroom before your next protest you morons! Mo> Don’t dress in disguise 20.03.2007 - 13:52 Uh, I can think of lots of people who dress in disguise. How 'bout GI Joesephine/Joe, the Po Po.... Big Tony-Working for Peace> Cowards 20.03.2007 - 14:02 Some statement, you're pissed, oooooooooo, watch out.. Breaking windows and smearing excrement on a building while hiding behind your masks is making quite a statement - like you're a bunch of cowards lacking the testicular fortitude or intellect to voice your opinion in a civilized manor. Yes, you really showed the man, hey Einstein that is a FEDERAL Building funded by OUR tax dollars to recruit the folks that keep our country safe, and give idiots like yourselves the freedom to voice, not vandalize, your opinion. I hope like hell when they catch you, you are prosecuted to the fullest. Oh I know you'll try to hide behind the 1st amendment, but I'm fairly certain there isn't any verbiage pertaining to VALDALIZM to protect you idiots! Good luck in prison - ASSHOLE! Dave> Hey Mo! Hey Mo! 20.03.2007 - 14:04 I think they were protesting The War in Iraq, not violence in general, thus no inconsistency, and no hypocrisy. Big Tony-Working for Peace> our country 20.03.2007 - 14:05 I agree with the people who say that this was uncalled for, but let me ask this question have any of the other peace rallies really made the news at all in our city. None that I can remember, granted destroying property is the easiest way to get noticed since the city will always twist it and put it on the news. You vandalized one fucking army recruiting center... WOW! Kudos. A 15 yr kid old with a backpack full of spray paint could have done that and made it look pretty, so come on folks. Where are the people who are covering our billboards with new messages, everyone drives and looks at billboards. How many people do you think drive down oakland compared to I-43? I don't like the fact that my friends are dying in a country that is far far away, but I am not about to destroy property over it. At least not military property. The fact is that the men and women who join the army to fight are not responsible for the war. They are the men and women who are strong enough to go over there and fight. Whether they should go, well that is a moral question for everyone to decide on their own. For those of you who think violence in our own country will stop our government from waging ridiculous wars on nations that are far worse off than us. You are fucking dead wrong. We the people don't have the power anymore because we are all brain washed by the american capitalist machine. I also don't believe they are fighting for freedom. That is retarded. All the liberties we lost cause of 9/11 and the resulting war were taken by our government. Destroy government officials property. they are the ones who change the policies and none of them are affected by what you did. You think our senator cares that you smashed some windows and broke some shit hell no. He still woke up and ate his breakfast and got in his expensive ass car and drove to work. People you need to pull the curtain back and look at the guy behind it. In my opinion we are so fucked already that none of this will solve it. What you need is to have everyone who wants to participate go somewhere and have a sit in. Don't leave until the police drag you away. Why are there no people sitting at our capital or the capitals around our country? This is war is not vietnam none of us are being drafted they are just brain washing everyone into it. My friends who joined are now drones. It kills me on the inside. I want to know why you people who join the army do it. What are you protecting?? There was one attack, and as the years go on we will see how much our government really had to do with it. Do you think that they didn't know about it previously? If so do you think they really thought that it was going to happen? the answer is yes. So then why would they let it happen? hmmmmm... Seems like some hidden agenda to me. I am not going to continue with conspiracy theories but just think about it. What do we have to gain by taking out the countries that control our worlds most precious resource? I could go on and on I think I might write a book soon, but I fear not enough people would read it. Why can't we organize and do something important? You need to pull the blindfold off America before you can be destructive. Just think what that would have been like if it was 5000 people on our capital not destroying things, but just quietly sitting in front of the doors. All I am saying is if you want people to take you seriously don't be immature about it. Like I said remove the blindfold and then see what our nation does. If people were educated on the events at hand they would see the evilness in our leaders. The people that protested the vietnam war are in charge of a lot of things now. So remove the blindfold and see what they do. I want this war to end but now that we are so far in we can't just pull our troops home right away. It's just not possible, and for every thinking person out this is reality. What we need are mediated solutions. I am not the answer man just a man who hates what this country stands for. From the get go we were fucked. Our nation was born from imperialism, it is just like a child who sees his father hit his mother. They will grow up and do the same thing cause it wasn't frowned upon by the people he looked up to. We wanted our freedom but then we did the same thing to all the natives of this country and surrounding countries. For all of you who think what we are doing in Iraq is right FUCK YOU. For all you people who can't figure out what to do about it read a fucking history book. The police and the government aren't scared of 21 kids breaking some shit, but 20,000 people marching on Washington that is a different story. You can't be violent at first but they have to know that is something that the people of this country are willing to do if they continue to not listen to us. All the leaders of movements from our past understood this why can't you. Next time you want to break something why don't you offer an ultimatum first. Let it be known that one day our country will fall if we continue on this path. Everyone acts so self righteous in this country, but just because we aid some dying countries a little bit does not mean that we can be forgiven for what is happening here. With the double installment of 96 billion dollars for this war we could have ended hunger in the third world as we know it. One more thing... Do you think all these countries would hate us so much if we really helped them? Don't believe what the news tells you or what our leaders tell you. All the right people are in on it so how can we fight that? Tear off that blindfold and ask yourself: "Do I want my countries foreign policies to reflect how I think and what I believe?" I hope the answer is YES. Right now we are fighting a war for people who control all the money and wealth in this country. I say FUCK them. Maybe they will listen when you put a brick through every single persons nice ass SUV with a bush sticker on the back, but they won't if you break some shit miles from where they live anyway. I am not condoning breaking anyones things but if you are going to do it, at least think about who changes the policies that you want changed. Cause right now we are pretty much alone over there. The few countries that support us are only on the bandwagon cause we are a super power right now. Soon that will not be true. What will we do then??? supporter of whats right> Cowards. 20.03.2007 - 14:29 So, you attacked an Army Recruiting station when no one was there? In the dark. And you threw poop. And you broke windows. And you think that proves that you're angry about the war? Sounds like a bunch of spoiled little middle class kids with a hardon for attention who wanted to whine and be outrageous for the sake of the media. You hate "the man", you hate "mainstream media", but you love yourselves so much that you think that getting arrested and being talked about in the journal sentinel gives you POWER? You're so eager to talk about "power of the people" against "power of the state" but you fail to recognize that there ARE a lot of people in the world that don't agree with you. I totally agree with the person who commented on fundamentalism. This brand of BS fundamentalism and idiocy only proves you "anarchists" to be about as intelligent and logical as any run of the mill fundamentalist religious radical wacko. Way to go! You sure showed us. I have been arrested doing something I believe in. But NEVER have I believed that property damage was going to solve any of the problems I set out to conquer. I highly doubt that anyone who burned their draft card would liken their experience to throwing poop at a recruiting center. Nice try, but they're totally separate incidents. Jailtime would be what you idiots deserve. You won't be political prisoners. You're just going to be another Milwaukee moron who resorted to violence going to jail. Ms. X> . 20.03.2007 - 14:36 . . . . Big Tony-Working for Peace> Big Tony, Big Tony.... 20.03.2007 - 14:46 That's exactly what I'm referring to - read my posting over you silly monkey! Mo> . 20.03.2007 - 14:48 . . . ... .> Go Back 20.03.2007 - 15:00 Why don't you guys go back to West Bend and Slinger and break some shit in your own cities, quit damaging the credibility of anti-war movement in Milwaukee with your juvenile tactics. Colin> Thank you. 20.03.2007 - 15:01 To: nestor, ARA kid, beenthere, bored, marco, anon, Lucy Parsons, MLK, Jr., and Big Tony - Working for Peace THANK YOU! Solidarity, Big Mama Big Mama> Bringing it to there level 20.03.2007 - 15:05 Being a former Army Ranger that was wounded overseas this pisses me off!!!I agree that these little fuckers need some of there own medicine. They had no idea the beast they would unleash. The hate of an entire country is now upon them. How dare any of them disrepect the men and women of the armed forces by vandalizeing our turf. I am sure some of these little turds go to UWM and can be tracked down that way. I wonder who they are going to call when there shit gets messed with? Bet you they are bitching that the JS released all their names. God it sucks when the freedoms you are hideing behind come back to fuck you!!! SSG "T"> Organized? Please... 20.03.2007 - 15:21 No one's saying you have to join the army, or even agree with the practices of the US Military. BUT, it's quite another situation to create a biohazard zone with your own crap. I get the statement. Believe me, I get it - yes, the war is crap. But, an army recruiting station on Oakland? You think that because a few people in Milwaukee took notice, you made some sort of long-lasting statement that will make a difference anywhere outside of Riverwest? The sad fact is that a vast percentage of actual army recruits are kids who want to be able to go to college and eventually get a job so they can make more money than their parents made. Yeah, there's always going to be the moron out there that joins up because they want to carry a gun. I'm sure there's plenty of ELF and ALF members who "join up" because they want to torch an SUV or "set the animals free" (without thinking of the consequences, of course). But, then again, that's what you kids do best - NOT think about consequences. In all fairness, we should not be in this war. Just like we should not have been in Vietnam. But to disrespect someone because of their life's choices and then cuss people out for disagreeing with you just doesn't make any sense at all. I guess it's not fair to expect anything more from a bunch of spoiled kids (apparently some of whom were willing to put their futures on the line but aren't even old enough to vote yet!). I'm so sorry that the Peace Demonstration almost made you "fall asleep". How tragic, considering there was a brilliant speach given by a 4th grade boy, decorated veterans who are proud to have served in World War II and proud to have taken part in liberation of thousands of Jews, and the attendance of numerous other amazing people who actually participated in and voiced opposition in an TRULY WELL ORGANIZED fashion. If you think changing policies and changing the world will happen by vandalism and being obnoxious, I'm sorry for you. You obviously haven't taken any cues from history. Things change when people are well organized. And I've never heard of well-organized humans throwing their own feces. Rosa Parks. Dr. King. Nelson Mandella. Women's Suffragettes. Quakers. Ghandi. They were all arrested for things they believed in. They all made their history altering points without throwing their own shit. Get your heads out of your asses. Anarchy has never, ever, in the entire history of life, made a lasting difference in any society. Educated.> We Believe Another World is PossibleYou Don't 20.03.2007 - 15:21 To: Fight or Die: Army Recruiters are War Criminals. The Voice of Milwaukee: #1. Your pen name is arrogant. #2. The phrase is "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Haven't you seen "V" for Vendetta? #3. You tell the Palestinians, the Iraqi people, the Haitians, the Rewandans, the Mexican people and so on, that property damage is violence. Do you really think they are concerned about a few windows being broken at a U.S. Recuiting Office? Do you really think they are concerned about your fragile ego that you associate with an anti-war movement that you believe can be discredited because you don't like what some of the people in Milwaukee are doing? It's not about you dude. It's about the people who live in violence everyday because of the crimes that the U.S. government is committing in our names. And read the MLK, Jr. posting. He understood violence and the difference between property and people. Mo: Military Recuiters are War Criminals. Voluntary soldiers are hired killers for the state. You brother ain't doing anything for the American people but committing suicide. Ha: We are taking action to stop the war - pity you don't know about it. steve: don't blame us for the fascist state - it has nothing to do with these types of actions - it has to do with the repressive forces of the state. They will always come down against the people. armyvet: Military Recruiters are War Criminals. anonymous: You need to listen to the real news, not NPR. 21 got unjustly rounded up. carl: Marines? Cops? Both of them are armed killers for the state. No. You ask Sean Bell's family what violence is. You ask a young Iraqi girl what violence is when she is raped by a marine. How dare you? Karl: the proper way to behave is to relentlessly resist and struggle against fascism. Madison Skinhead: Only in Amerikka would one care about "turning the public against you." Scotch: Photos, from us? We hope you are willing to meet clandestinely and pay big bucks. Funny, we make the news and then photo it too? I like that. Big Mama> Solidarity?? LOL 20.03.2007 - 15:22 I can't wait to see how much solidarity there is when everyone starts ratting each other out~LOL! Hyena> peace vs militant action 20.03.2007 - 15:35 not sorry to say that today at school all i heard was people talking about the recruiting center, and not about peaceful protests. some kids thought it was pretty cool and were telling other people who were all 'no shit? awesome.' right on hot karl> Thanks To: 20.03.2007 - 15:36 The ARMY, NAVY, AIR FORCE & MARINES for giving your lives on the alter of freedom. You know over evryone else that freedom isn't free! Nice job Wisconsin - Be proud of your leftist anti-war vandels! Boy - You all know how to set a great example for the world to see in regards to America. You just lowered the bar for your, um, great anti-war cause. This sure put you on the map and some of the most logical, inspirational, intelligent Leftys in the country.... NOT!!!!!!!! What a joke. The IDIOT list: Kelsey M. Kazik, 20, Milwaukee; Sara Keiza, 17, Milwaukee; Jillian Duckwitz, 21, Milwaukee; Richard A. Ketcham, 22, Milwaukee; Amy M. Barger, 19, West Bend; Jessica L. Brooks, 18, West Bend; Craig R. Barringer, 20, Waukesha; Jonathon W. Wilson, 17, Wauwatosa; David W. Clerkin, 21, Madison; Derek W. Johnson, 17, West Bend ; Nathan J. Bartelt, 20, West Bend; Thomas P. Buckholt, 17, Milwaukee; Jeffrey G. Lavato, 18, West Bend; Andrew L. Ortlieb, 24, Milwaukee; and Kathryn E. Jacobs, 20, Milwaukee Dan> Lame... 20.03.2007 - 15:46 its because of the army that u have the right to protest you faggots! do something more productive with ur time... proud conservative> It's cool to know buzz words like "fascist... 20.03.2007 - 15:49 Ok. Let me get this straight... army recruiters and people in the military are war criminals. Right? So, that would make poo-flingers someone with a biohazardous weapon. Which would make you... some sort of bio-terrorist. I GET IT!!! So, anyone who disagrees with you is a fascist, so anyone who agrees with you should, logically, be a fucking dumbass. Right? Just because you fight for the opposition doesn't mean you're doing the right thing. Not all marines rape Iraqi girls. Not all anarchist kids are full of shit. True on both accounts. Not all vets are baby killers. Not all hippie kids steal stuff and sell it for drug money. Facts again! Not all frat boys are date rapists. Not all Mormons have multiple wives. Possibly true... Do you want me to keep going? It's easy. And totally ridiculous. Something else that is totally ridiculous? That you all seem to think that these kids were arrested UNJUSTLY. Let me ask you this: Who will be paying for these children's attorneys? Their parents? Where will the checks be coming from to pay for the legal defense? Shorewood? Fox Point? Whitefish Bay? Brookfield? Oh, I know! Chicago! Madison. Some gated community in Menomonee Falls? Did your parents not love you enough? Are you rebelling because you're angry about the war, or because you wanted attention and no one ever voted you prom queen? Get over yourselves. Do something that matters. Not like this will affect you at all. You'll probably all take a plea bargain. Bitch and whine, throw a tantrum, and when it comes down to the wire, you and your parent's attorney will take the plea. Proving, once again, that you didn't do something you believed in - you did something because you wanted to. And with anarchist kids, it's all about instant gratification. You're worthless. You don't matter. You have nothing to say when you're saying it with your asshole. SCANNER> Wrong target... 20.03.2007 - 15:52 You vent your frustration at the Army...as if they make policy. Take your protest to the lawmakers who put the troops on the ground. Those senators and representatives who will not right now vote for an immediate pull out are the ones you should be pissed at. Soldiers are here to serve American citizens, they are bound by law and honor to follow the orders of the government. You idiots attack the soldiers when you should be going after thier leaders, but that would be too dangerous wouldn't it... you might actually get arrested trashing a politician's office. whatever you do, don't let the facts get in the way of your idealism... Life is better in Iraq now than it has been in the past 25 years. but the ragheads can't seem to figure out that American soldiers only want them to quit killing each other Which they do because of one paragraph about the prophet's intentions. Don't worry, I'm sure the peace-loving Muslims of the world will be able to solve their difference without beheading anyone live on Al Jezzera. Better yet, spend your energy solving problems of poverty and racism in Milwaukee's inner city. Think about it> cowards 20.03.2007 - 15:52 i understand the need to make a statement - but when you make one, stand by it, instead of running away in to the night. mlp> My Son is Serving His Country 20.03.2007 - 15:52 My son is entering his third month of duty with the IOWA NATIONAL GUARD, serving his country and protecting the rights of the idiots who made fools of themselves last night...as well as the morons who have entered comments in this blog today. Steve B.> to fucking stupid "old fart" 20.03.2007 - 15:54 Hey "old fart" - Let's see - you're an aging hippie and former protester and you raised your little idiot to do the same. The reason your idiot can protest is due to those who protect that freedom - THE MILITARY. So put out the bong and go thank a soldier then eat shit and die. captain> idiots 20.03.2007 - 15:56 all you anti war people already have been called idiots enough that I won't bother doing it again and enough people have pointed out the foolishness of protesting war with violence so no need to talk about that. Since I assume you don't want to go to jail for stupidity and therefore your group has no public membership, I will venture a guess as to the demographics of it. I'm guessing a few older people who were there in the Vietnam protests, trying as hard as they could between bong hits and acid trips to think of clever chants about LBJ and baby killing. It was people like you who restricted what we could do in the war, making it unwinable. Thanks for that... The majority of your group is probably young kids, I'd say 15-21. Get those high school kids when they are going through their 'Fuck the system' phase that smart people eventually grow out of. Keep 'em in for a few years, feed 'em some rhetoric, vandalize a window. Let them think it matters what they are doing. Let them think they are accomplishing something. Because really they are accomplishing something. But its now what they think. They are giving the older members their 'raison de etre'. Its not about the war, it can't be. If it was, you'd still support the troops. Only a true idiot will come out against the troops. As I'm sure you people have. My roomate spent 11 months in Kuwait and I'v been standing next to him when someone called him a baby killer. The people who say stuff like that are the same scum that were spitting on serviceman returning from SE Asia 30 years ago. It wasn't about the war then either. Its about you stupid motherfucking middle class hippies that can't get a job because your brain is fried and your way of retaliation is saying 'fuck the government'. fucking idiots scotch> By the way Big Mama 20.03.2007 - 15:58 1. You're a tool.... 2. "You tell the Palestinians, the Iraqi people, the Haitians, the Rewandans, the Mexican people and so on, that property damage is violence. Do you really think they are concerned about a few windows being broken at a U.S. Recuiting Office?" HAHAHAHA!!! This statement in itself makes you a complete idiot. I'm pretty sure their not concerned with you're idiotic stunt. Hey - Here's an idea - Go live in one of these fine countries and tell them about it. You won't have to cry about it here anymore. And I hope either a U.S. prison or a terrorist has there way with your punk ass. 3. Stupid Dumbasses like YOU are war criminals!!!! Dan> HEY F#CKSTICKS! 20.03.2007 - 16:01 It is the soldier, not the reporter Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer Who has given us the right to a fair trial. It is the soldier Who salutes the flag, Who serves under the flag, Whose coffin is draped in the flag, Who allows the protester to burn the flag. Thanks to the Milwaukee Urinal for posting your names. In todays world it will be so easy to find you! Me and my friends are looking foward to rubbing your noses in the SH$T like the dogs you are! ARMY VET> If Ghandi had his way.... 20.03.2007 - 16:03 Hey liberals, go out get an education (and I don't mean a sociology degree from UWM). The peace movement was extremely strong in the US circa 1938-1941. We had Charles Lindbergh hanging out with Goering in Germany and Wisc Governor Philip LaFollette calling Roosevelt (who never served himself) a warmonger. There was Ghandi telling the British not to fight Germany and when word got out about the Nazi's were doing, he said that the Jews should commit mass sucide instead of fighting in the Warsaw ghetto and elsewhere. If the peace movement had its way, there wouldn't be a Jew alive anywhere outside of North America. So my point is, that the peace movement has always consisted of nieve idiots. Included the bitch above who called those who are serving "war criminals". Stu> On protest 20.03.2007 - 16:03 To "Supporter of what's right": You said: "The police and the government aren't scared of 21 kids breaking some shit, but 20,000 people marching on Washington that is a different story." Except 20,000 DID march on Washington just this Saturday, did you hear anything about it? Did it change anything? What about the 100,000 that marched at the Capital on January 27th? Still Bush promises an escalation and Congress can't even agree to slap him on the wrist. And to everyone who complains about anti-war protesters not being "peaceful," do you have any concept of the difference between violence against PEOPLE and violence against PROPERTY? Peace Out. EthrDemon> LET'S GET SOME FACTS STRAIGHT HERE 20.03.2007 - 16:05 Yup, this is me! Ok- I showed up on my way to Dominoes to get one of their YUMMY pizzas! There really WASN'T any poop (fecal matter). Broken windows & paint yes. Contrary to the media and "eyewitness" reports, NOBODY had crowbars and baseball bats. The windows were broken by torch sticks and flagpoles. Let's have a big cheer for the good old USA! Big Tony-Working for Peace> how does this really help your cause? 20.03.2007 - 16:06 You vandalize an un-occupied building paid for by tax-payers. Brave. You make statements about the war, to those who make those decisions? Not. Try your elected representatives next time. Few statements made in defence of this act are comprehensive, intelligent or complete. Brilliant reflection of your collective characters. Oh and the grammar is impressive also. Many statements are made that have the colour of socialism or Marxism. Let’s see how history shows that works out. Yes, the U.S.S.R. worked great, Cuba and other Socialist brothers are flourishing!! Well, maybe not. Even China is giving it up. Yep, great idea. As long as someone is holding a weapon to your head. With this list of some of those involved stating very young ages, you are all quite worldly to know so much. Clearly you have a great understanding and experience of humanity that many don’t. Have any of your balls even dropped yet? Clearly not. If so, you wouldn’t hide under the cover of darkness, dressed in dark colours. You might actually confront those who make these decisions. You might actually try a confrontation face to face with actual soldiers who might defend everyone’s tax dollars. Seems like many involved don’t have the brain power to comprehend the true foolishness of this act. Those with heart, courage and integrity can change the world, those that can’t complain, cry and lash out in cowardice. I absolutely defend your First Amendment rights, and have sworn an oath to do so. Makes me sick to think just a bunch of punks feel this is somehow acceptable to anyone. Lastly, you wish to use “spell check”. Can any of your comprehend your own ignorance? marine mike> Children of Cowards, Anti-Americans &Traitors 20.03.2007 - 16:17 The cowardly slime who participated in this act of treason should be (male and female) castrated at noon on the steps of the County Courthouse for their treasonous, traitorous, anti-american display of hatred for our brave young U.S. Soldiers who give their live every day so that these pampered scum can commit hate crimes such as this and who are giving their live daily to protect these morons from the Islamo-fascists these imbeciles look up to. Their parents should likewise be place in stock and pillary and have the same type of feces hurled on their bodies until they beg for forgiveness for having raised such worthless children. Dick> Violence okay? 20.03.2007 - 16:24 So several supports of the "peace" movement have said on here that violence against property is okay. That it is required for change. Great, if a couple of abortion clinics go up in flames tonight, would you support that? Stu> Sweet. 20.03.2007 - 16:26 Anon has a great point. This is one of the coolest things I've seen all year, and I am so pissed that I didn't go. I know some people who went, and I was going to go, but I couldn't. Ian> e-mail:: goskate_ian@hotmail.com takin' it personally 20.03.2007 - 16:31 After just hearing about this and then reading all of the subsequent commments, I'd like to add a couple things... 1) A RECRUITING center was VANDALIZED. Ahem, this was no american legion post and this wasn't a dilapidated vet hospital. What does this mean symbolically? This was not an attack on U.S. troops and shouldn't be taken personally by them. This recruiting center was right down the block from both a high school and a university. You think these anarchists are recruiting young kids? How about recruiting kids for WAR after they've just been deemed competent enough to decide whether or not to smoke cigarettes? The attack was nothing more than symbolic protest against an institution that kills kids here and overseas. Perhaps the government's lack of funding for our Vet hospitals, mentally ill, and programs for children should be seen as violence? I do agree that the blindfold has to come off because our political system and the corporations that support it don't give a fuck about us...but HOW do we take this blindfold off without resorting to symbolic acts like property damage? Clearly the media isn't doing the job. 2) The troops in Iraq have nothing to do with 'winning' our rights and freedoms. Freedoms must be fought for and maintained at home and if they aren't fought for, they dissapear. Anyone who can remember the straightjacket our discourse has been put in since 9/11 must realize this. Without healthy and VARIED debate, well, we are beginning to see what happens. Slavery is Freedom! War is Peace! anyone? Our language has been so corrupted that we can't even talk about what we're talking about! 3) Property destruction is not violence and love does not imply pacifism. ..quite the opposite, really. Might (or property, or title, or flag) doesn't make right. In closing, as a person who cares deeply about all forms of life, it is sad to see my fellow countrymen die on foreign soil. It is also sad to know children continue to be killed by religious extremists from HERE and 'over there'. Our entire economic and political system perpetuates and is maintained by violence and until we can start asking for forgiveness for crimes of the past (indigenous genocide, legacy of slavery and racism, ecocide, etc.), we will never be capable of acknowledging the crimes of the present (police brutality, depleted uranium, anyone?). If this pisses you off, statistically you're probably a christian - so forgive me! cause I've already forgiven you. "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists" ~bush fuck that, I'm with the idiots! **SOLIDARITY WITH THOSE WHO CONTINUE TO OPPOSE THE DESTRUCTION OF LIFE!** voice of the voiceless> Queers and Retards 20.03.2007 - 16:38 What kind of cowards wear ski masks on their face? Oh wait, a bunch of sally's. Hmmm, and who actually shits in either their hand or some sort of container, carries it around with them, and procedes to smear it around a building ... oh wait, retards. Anyone can smash a window with a brick, be a hero, next time use your head you fags. full of laughter> boring boring boring 20.03.2007 - 16:42 Not surprised at any of the comments here; the usual shit from the usual suspects- liberals, right-wingers, neo-nazi trolls and probably a bunch of cops. This debate has been going on for who knows how long, and nobody is going to change any body's mind, so I'm not going to bother arguing, though it seems everyone involved is making far too many asinine assumptions- as usual. Oh well. All I'm going to say is that people should keep in mind that the media and especially the pigs are reading this site real hard right now, and people shouldn't be making any dumb posts that implicate anybody directly or indirectly- such things will be deleted ASAP, but they shouldn't be said at all. Don't do the fucking pigs job for them. All down comrades- stay safe, don't ever stop fighting. Everybody else- keep on putting me to sleep. A concerned citizen> direct action gets the goods 20.03.2007 - 16:42 I'm having a hard time telling whether people online today are cops, nazis or just random idiots who watch todays tmj4. Thanks for the indymedia shout out, tmj4. I don't think this many people have ever looked at milwaukees indymedia before. a herd of kittens> The only question I have... 20.03.2007 - 16:46 ... is why didn't they hop into the place and wreck all that they could? I suppose if it was a spur of the moment destruction I could understand, but if it was the plan from the beginning they should have put some more thought into it. Other than that I can say good job gents! Viva la revolucion! Nikolai Delarge> e-mail:: neeko787@yahoo.com Violence is the answer 20.03.2007 - 16:50 To all those who believe a peaceful protest changes nothing and violence is the only path to change...why are you against a war? Your dichotomy is truly priceless. We need more intellectuals of your caliber. Thanks for the chuckle. Eric> RE: Queers and Retards 20.03.2007 - 16:53 Yo "full of laughter"- You calling me a "sally?" I served in this great country's Army for 3 years. We wore masks all the time to conceal our identities from our enemies in this day and age of ubiquitous media! Don't you fucking dis me! What about me cousin the cop? They wear masks all the time- who wants some dope dealer burning your house down because he knows who you are? Fucking Asshole. Mad props to my brothers in arms. Come home soon safe & sound! Hope this shit ends..... USArmy Veteran> People are Stupid 20.03.2007 - 16:54 Most of the people who are against the war are very un-educated. With that being said most people who are very much for the war are very un-educated. Their are obviously pros and cons to all of this. Breaking windows and spreading fecies inside the recruiting place i'm sure will cause an up-rising in America and stop the war...haha. Stopping the war while being in the stage it is in now would hurt America more than help. The saddest part about this pro-test is that people actually ran. They don't have balls to take credit for what they did. They ran and hid just like they want the army to do in Iraq...Run and hide away from this mess. I support the troops in Iraq, but I am very level headed. I am not far right nor am I far left. If I was then my oppinion on this would be very fogged...similar to how far left and far right people are no where near educated about anything that happens in the government. I actually walked by there with a group of friends last night after all this happened and I can say for those people they are very lucky that we did not walk by as this was going on. Curt> ignore the haters 20.03.2007 - 17:20 good work! i'm sorry that so many of y'all got snatched; i hope you have some good legal support. but the good thing is that these confrontational actions are on the rise. for the time being, we'll be able to make bail, ignore the haters, and provide active solidarity with struggles against capital and domination worldwide. the reason "they" fear us is that we have nothing to lose, and only their destruction to gain. juicebox> Conservatives should shut up too. 20.03.2007 - 17:28 Ok, actually people who are against the war are NOT uneducated. That's ludicrous. As someone mentioned earlier - not everyone who is anti war thinks these kids did anything but make situations worse. I am whole-heartedly anti war. BUT, I am whole-heartedly pro veterans rights and in support of the troops - because the troops are human beings who deserve respect like any other human being. If anti-war people are so uneducated, why is it all the conservatives using disgusting language, as though they have a teeny-tiny vocabulary to work with. RESPECT each other. Maybe we wouldn't be killing eachother if we respected each other more. In this case, both of you people's extremes are WRONG. Both sides think that harsh language and throwing sticks will somehow change the other side's mind, when all it does is make the other side hate you more. And anyone in between think that both ends are radical extremists - thus fascism on both sides of the fence! Oh, and is it really necesary to call people ragheads while attempting to get your point across? Please. Grow up. Everyone. Ms. X> Message to Stu 20.03.2007 - 17:34 If you read all the comments - most of these kids are not claiming to be part of the "PEACE" movement. If I read some of those previous comments correctly, someone actually said the Peace rally practically put them to sleep... These kids do not claim to be peaceful. They just claim to be right. Which is no different from any of the pro-war weirdos commenting claiming they're in the right. But just to clarify - these kids were NOT part of the peace rally. The peace rally was actually PEACEFUL. Ms. X> You're not that important... 20.03.2007 - 17:43 Why do you folks always think that cops are monitoring indymedia? This is not the best place for information. Complete bias "news". It's as bad, or worse, than watching any major "news" channel, or listening to a clearchannel owned radio station. I agree with former commentors. Why do we need to call eachother faggots and sallys and queers and ragheads and fascists and whatnot? Are you not aware that you make yourself sound like a dipshit when you resort to calling people names? Yes. I am calling you a dipshit. Did I get my point across? Julianne> UMMM 20.03.2007 - 17:55 Nobody smeared feces on any walls. Truth> Comment 20.03.2007 - 18:03 I'd like to remind everyone that opposition to the war in Iraq is not a left vs right conflict. If you disagree, try telling that to Pat Buchanan or Ron Paul, along with plenty of other traditional conservatives and Libertarian whom oppose the war. Ben> Nazi';s and Dems both oppose the war 20.03.2007 - 18:18 Ben, you are sooo right. Look at who went to Crawford Texas this past fall to oppose the war: Liberal Democrats like Cindy Sheehan NeoNazi group Stormfront KKK activist David Duke. I wish I had the link handy to what KKK veteran David Duke said. It was the EXACT same thing the liberal Dems were saying. Stu> Stop the war in Milwaukee first 20.03.2007 - 18:18 Reading some of the other comments on this issue made me laugh about the ignorance and cowardice of the "war protestors." Dressing in black and attacking an empty building at night..ewwwww... that's motivated action that will get results. How about this: More Wisconsinites have been killed in Milwaukee in the last four years than in Iraq. Let's put some of that "bravery" you are showing to work stopping the war in Milwaukee. Here's the plan. All you brave anti-war protestors put on your little black suits and light your torches and pick out one intersection... just one intersection and start winning the war in Milwaukee. You attack that intersection and make a statement by throwing rocks and bottles at any drug dealer and gangbanger you see there. Just give'm the bum's rush. Knock that inner city terrorist to the ground and beat his ass. Tell him this is your country, your town, your intersection and you will not allow violence and drug dealing to happen here. You are ready to stop it. This will do at least two things... it will rid that intersection of drug dealers for the night and it will show you how much force it takes to subdue a violently resisting drug dealer. Remember to take his gun and turn it in to the, what did you call them, "hired killers" of the Milwaukee PD... that will get one more of those evil guns off the streets. You do this every night... you take back a street corner... you stand up and denounce violence and lawlessness and you take action... THE TIME IS NOW. Aren't you tired of seen innocent people slaughtered while the racist government does nothing to help them? LET'S GET OUT THERE AND SHOW THEM WE ARE SERIOUS! THIS HAS TO END NOW! Oh yeah... all you brave souls must understand that by doing this, you will actually be fighting someone; someone who is going to be fighting back. Some of you might die, but if it takes violence to stop the violence then so be it. Right? If you want to change the world... start by cleaning up your room. Start by saving the places closest to you. If you want to show the world how brave you are, pick the worst neighborhood in Milwaukee and direct your efforts to stopping the violence there. Go break the windows of some crack houses and tell the folks occupying that "prime real estate" to get the hell out... instead of Fuck the Army... how about Fuck the Crackheads? What's the matter, no guts? If you want to fight for something .... well... fight. Take back YOUR streets. Are you telling me that everything in Milwaukee is perfect, nothing but flowers and unicorns in the Central City? Instead of attacking an empty office, go knock heads on some gangbangers. Run them out of town. What's the matter, too much work? Too much risk? Why don't you just sit on campus and spend mommy and daddy's money on a new Ipod. You don't have the guts to do anything worthwhile. think about it> Thank You 20.03.2007 - 18:27 Bravo! A big round of applause and many hugs go out to our comrades in Milwaukee who did the right thing and brought the war home against that recruiting center. In coming months there will be more actions against recruiting centers as more and more people figure out that the only way to sabotage the American war machine is to monkeywrench it at its weakest point: recruiting. We see that the usual batch of dim-witted, patriotic assholes are smearing you for this rather modest action. Take this as a sign that you did the right thing. Don't worry about threats coming from these cowards. In all of our decades of organizing protests, these right-wing nuts have never been a problem for us. Have fun dealing with the local liberals who will get their ineffective panties tied up into knots. They haven't risked one goddamn thing to stop this war. They think that waving signs, feeling smug about their opposition to Bush, and Waiting for Obama will stop this war. Hey comrades, the ball is in your court now. Counter-recruiting is the way to go right now. Infoshop.org> Homepage:: http://www.infoshop.org/ solidarity 20.03.2007 - 18:34 solidarity from cleveland. don't listen to fat, miller-pounding rightwing shits, bring the fucking war home. finne> Enough Already! 20.03.2007 - 19:03 ENOUGH! The people who destroyed property at the recruiting center were not ANTI WAR PROTESTORS. They were destructive little brats. ANTI WAR PROTESTORS massed on Saturday by the lakefront and marched downtown. Apparently the only one NOT retarded> What?? 20.03.2007 - 19:06 Dear Finne - if you bring the war home, doesn't that defeat the purpose of protesting war on foreign soil? Angela> i wish i was there 20.03.2007 - 19:09 when i saw them walking past my job i almost left and joined them, but my uniform is all white... but this unjustified war has gone on long enough, and people like this are the ones that are making people wake up. its only too bad that most of the people who see this are just gonna label these kids as punks like i see they already are doing on here. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF the US helped saddam get into power the US supported saddam during the Iraq-Iran war (this was the same time that saddam was using chemical weapons on the iranians and the kurds) FIND OUT ABOUT OUR COUNTRIES INVOLVEMENT IN THE MIDDLE EAST DURING THE LAST 50 YEARS then see if you want those same people leading our country revolution rising> sickening,rediculous, and appauling 20.03.2007 - 19:46 Ok first of all, I'm related to one of the kids who were caught doing this, and I know another one... I'm anti Iraqi War, and I'm democratic. Yet this senseless act of violence disgusts me! This does nothing to get the troops back home. Some of these kids say they didn't know what was happening. I'm sorry.. You put black ski masks and bandanas on to cover your face. You marched with Anarchy banners, You marched side to side with people carrying torches, smoke bombs and other weapons. AT WHAT FUCKING POINT DO YOU LOOK AROUND AT ALL THIS AND SAY "THIS CAN ONLY END GOOD?!?" I hope they charge every single one of these people with Treason, and commiting a terrorist act. Guy> dumb dumb dumb dumb 20.03.2007 - 19:48 raised under the power lines were we? This was a juvenile and ass backwards attempt to affect change. Go ahead, alienate everyone that would potentially agree with you by fucking up a neighborhood. You are all delusional and or stupid as fuck if you think this was an action to be applauded. -Sanger chris sanger> Retarded as fuxxx 20.03.2007 - 19:50 Hey "Apparently the only one not retarded," lots of the people who attended this event have been involved in all sorts of anti-war organizing and activities for years. You may disagree with the tactics some individuals used, but that doesn't mean they're not against the war. None of them are claiming that the people who just march for point a to point b with a sign and listen to some speakers say the same crap aren't real protestors, so why not show the same courtesy? The disagreement is on tactics, not whether or not they're actually against the war. dig ol bicks> The Golden Rule 20.03.2007 - 19:56 I think I have the right to throw a trashcan through the infoshop's windows. In fact, I think I have the right to throw a trash can through the window of every one of the protesters there, I can find out the names of those arrested and start with them. Maybe afterwords I will throw trash cans through the windows of their parents houses, after all they gave birth to the little bastards and didn't give them a lick of sense. A person with half a brain> Can't believe! 20.03.2007 - 20:00 I can't belief that those arreseted were not arrested for damaging government property. They got off VERY easy! This is a disgrace to this country. You don't attack those that serve you! More than half of the soldiers, marines, airmen, and sailors working and recruitment center have been overseas themselves as well. They know what it is like over there. Why would you attack a defender of your freedom? I am appoulled and disgusted by the behavior of these young people. What has today's youth come too? My prayers are with the soldiers of the recruitment center in Milwaukee! Proud Army Wife> To Big Momma 20.03.2007 - 20:03 So you say the cop and marines are state killers? You failed to answer weather or not you would call the cops if you were robbed? Of course you would you dumb cunt, because your a hypocrite! CARL> e-mail:: millirider@aol.com burn it down next time. 20.03.2007 - 20:09 Many of you are forgeting a key point, read the sign the protesters are holding "NO WAR BUT THE CLASS WAR". This was not mearly a group of whiny liberals getting together to wave their flags and cower at the idea of being called unpatriotic for opposing a near genocidal war and proudly asserting the fact that while they do oppose the war they most certainly hope those pawns fighting it are fully supported and suceed in their job (uh irony?). This event was a group of people fed up with that irony. Why on earth would you be opposed to war and support the army fighting it? And how can you get pissed off about the Iraq war being unjust when virtually every single war the United States has engaged in since its inception has been unjust, so why do you want to support the armed forces who are the most obvious and grotesque manifestation of that injustice you wish to stop? Sorry I was rambling, back to the banner... like I previously stated this was not merely an anti- Iraq war march, but a march against the very system of opression and exploitation that is the United States government. Yes we want the war to end in Iraq, yes we want peace, but remember the lack of war is not peace. In the time between the first and second Gulf Wars 500,000 Iraqis were KNOWINGLY starved to death by the United States Gov. policy: From TIME MAGIZINE (mainstream media just so you dont complain I dont have good sources) "Secretary of State Madeleine Albright when she told "60 Minutes" in 1998 that even if sanctions against Iraq cause the death of half a million Iraqi children, "the price is worth it." ( http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/07/26/iraq7_25.a.tm/) Now in addition to that mere half million Iraqis lets add on the 600,000+ killed by the direct conflict currently ravaging their country, hmm thats uhhh welll... over a MILLION killed as a direct result of American actions (this is of course discluding the 1980's in which the US supported Sadam even providing him with the chemical weapons used against the Kurds (after which we still backed and funded him up untill his invasion of Kuwait, so America killed Sadam for our crimes, wouldnt it be great to lynch the Bush family?). The army of course is hiding behind the utter nonsense that these violent young people attacked the very institution fighting to preserve their freedom. LOL everyone knows Iraq has nothing to do with that everyone knows the government is only taking away more rights since 9/11 gosh sometimes i wonder why this is even a debate. Quit your fretting about property destruction as violence, it seems many of you are more outraged by a single smashed window than the million Iraqi dead or the fact that Milwaukee has one of the fucking highest rising murder rates, gosh if your all so outraged about a broken window its a wonder why we dont have mass demonstrations and vigils with the entire Milwaukee metro area after everytime an inner city child is murdered. Theres more I want to write more but it will probably fall on deaf ears. xHYPHYx> oh yeah i forgot 20.03.2007 - 20:30 a few more things: I'm pretty sure everyone involved was fairly aware that this action would not suddenly stop the death machine in Iraq. Im pretty sure everyone in general is pretty aware that as long as the government we have is in power almost not amount of protest or opposition will stop it. This action has gotten more media attention and debate than any other anti- war event in Milwaukee that I can remember, we want people to talk about this kind of stuff, when our government is involved in the wholesale murder of a million people we'd be completly amoral to not provoke constant debate and furry. Everyone knows that the government expects and condones massive non violent peace demonstrations, its what is expected I mean just like voting these anual Iraq anniversery demonstrations have become clockwork in pointless "social action" that do absolutly nothing to change the structure of power in our country. And while this has done probably equally as little imagine if every single sign and building associated with the Millitary was targeted for vandelization, well we'd probably turn into nazi germany, but beyond that those in power would be like oh shit, they are really serious uhh maybe we should do something. ' To the Proud Millitary Wife, I'm sorry you're so blind, lets say in the off chance America had a legitimate threat to its "freedom" or "security" maybe the work of the soldiers would be perserving that but fighting this war in Iraq has nothing to do with protecting freedoms here (save our god given right to destroy the world with CO2 emmision from pure middle eastern oil). Wake up and learn your history. xHYPHYx> It's Funny... 20.03.2007 - 20:47 ... so many of you claim that the only reason my friends and fellow americans were even capable of this action is because the United States Military Allowed them to. How unfortunate, however, that the armed forces, did not allow this action, nor have they ever "allowed" any action. Allowing action is NOT and has NEVER been the job of the army. My Friends Bravely Marched on a symbol of their enemy, knowing full well that their protest would make news, get attention, and possibly land them in jail. They Knew that they would most likely suffer harsh consequences, because they knew that the soldiers and police forces would never ALLOW this type of action. thats right, I said Bravely. so many neo nazis, klansmen, fundamentalist christians, toothless Infantrymen, and closet homosexual charismatics have stated (and continue repeating) that this was an act of cowardice. No friends, this took more guts than you or I will ever have combined. I long for the fulfillment of making a difference in this fight. not just a fight against foreign wars but a fight against western society as a whole. Sadly I fear that we shall destroy the Very earth we claim to master before we learn to master even our own hearts. Fight on Brothers and Sisters, and wave that banner High! Solidarity Comrades. Terror> Fuck you 20.03.2007 - 20:49 "To the Proud Millitary Wife, I'm sorry you're so blind" From all of us with loved ones serving in the armed forces right now (including my girl friend)...... FUCK YOU Stu> i was gonna 20.03.2007 - 20:59 say fuck you too, but thats really childish. you're a moron, im sorry. and im also sorry you're family members are participating in murder. seriously learn your history there is no honor in fighting for corporations. xHYPHYx> Recruit THIS! 20.03.2007 - 21:01 All the thousands of lives destroyed in Iraq, and people are worried about some slight damage to some cheapass storefront sicko military recruiting mill? Please!!! AWOL> Cowards? 20.03.2007 - 21:13 The only cowards here are the ones who use jets, tanks and cruise missiles to kill children in their homes. Perhaps next time that's what they should do to you? Then maybe you can form an experienced opinion about what cowardice is. Miles> To the the person who posted the libelous com 20.03.2007 - 21:35 You don't even have the courage to use your name. You are a complete coward. Grow a pair. sanger> stay on topic 20.03.2007 - 21:50 i just noticed that comment above, i dont know what its about, but keep your tright personal battles to yourselves. xHYPHYx> cowards 20.03.2007 - 22:03 you cowards. buncha suburban west bend kids and riverwest losers. if you had any balls, you'd do without the black clothing or masks. better yet, try attacking a military base, not a "closed" recruiting office. such tough guys. and then to recruit young children. you're a bunch of failures. keep in mind, those soldiers fight for your right to be such idiots. you're a disgrace to America. Johnny Law> People 20.03.2007 - 22:20 Freedom isn't free. They are keeping the fighting over there rather than on the streets of your town to keep you from having to cower and run for your lives. Support those who die AND live for your freedoms in the army, navy, air force, and marines. Sure people die, that's the price of war; peaceful actions will only take you so far, yes, but violent actions will take you to a much darker place..you may get your message across and you may have your voice heard, but our of the billions on this planet...no one cares about you except (hopefully) your family and friends. The government may have some screwed up policies as of late but I thank them for keeping gunfire from my own back yard and keeping me from having to see my own country look like a warzone. Appriciate the freedoms you have and thank every living and dead member of the armed forces for the freedoms that you have and cherish so dearly.(Like your right to protest.) If any of you have a problem with me, you can find me in Macon, Ga. My name is Ashley Stephen Smith...but if you come to my door expecting to screw up anything that I have, property or otherwise, you WILL see what happens when you screw with an american that exercises his rights. Stephen> Sybolism:Peace Sign vs. Direct Action. 20.03.2007 - 22:21 Neither of the actions, March 17, a rally and march in Milwaukee, nor the action on the Military Recruiting Center[March 19, 2007}will stop the war in Iraq, or the impending U.S. military action elsewhere. They are both symbolic. But ... the action against the recruiting center is more direct and has inspired a robust and open debate. This is what we need. Neither of them are violent. One [the rally and march] is planned, sanctioned, and controlled,the other is organic and free. We must continue to resist and struggle against the repressive state. The more resistance the better. You arrogant folks need to get off your privileged podiums. You tell the people in Iraq about your pedestrian concerns about a military recruitment center being hit, and lets see what they have to say. My Fellow Americans, your idea of violence shows your class. Do you have no knowledge of history? Labor struggles? Past wars? Is this really a big deal? Why are you demonizing these freedom fighters? What is your interest? We are openly against war and specifically the war in Iraq. Stand in solidarity. Quit worrying about your position and your place. Solidaridad, Big Mama Big Mama> No War But the Class War 20.03.2007 - 22:28 Dear xHYPHYx: We are glad you got it. That's right. It is not about the moment, it is about the struggle. Solidaridad, Lucy Lucy Parsons> Beneath contempt 20.03.2007 - 22:29 You people, who speak disparagingly of our military (to whom, by the way, you owe your ability to speak freely) are a bunch of snivelling little worms. Oh, sure - you are brave tough guys when its an empty recruiting office. I'll bet your pretty tough when there's a bunch of you, and one of us. Well - I don't think any two of you are man enough to explain to me, up close and personal, how throwing shit at a recruiting station and insulting our soldiers, the least of whom is a far, far better man than you can ever hope to become, is a legitimate form of expression. Yeah, that's right - I'm gonna teach a couple of you little twits the meaning of the word "respect." You can even have two of you, with your little torches, and your bats - and me and my K-Bar. Bring the body bags - you'll need them, pussies.  XSaZPPggN8c6nb41@spambox.us Cincinattus> e-mail:: XSaZPPggN8c6nb41@spambox.us Cliches 20.03.2007 - 22:48 You lefties talk in odd cliches. It's like you piece (peace?) together your sentences from the spoiled white kids rebelious manual. But no one has mentioned Haliburton yet. Someone slipped up. It's funny how the hippy-freaks from the 60's now try to say that no one ever spit on Vietnam vets as the veterans were returning home. Revisionist history. Seeing the posts above show how much the so-called peace activists hate our military personal and would spit on them when they get a chance. I would like to debate you guys one what would happen if Iran or Syria get control of Iraq, but most of you seem pretty ignorant about the mideast so I won't bother. Stu> BRAVO! YOU GUYS ARE A SUCCESS!! 20.03.2007 - 22:52 YOU GUYS ARE A SUCCESS ...for only getting some bad press. As someone who supports your cause I say... Stop before you bring more shame - to yourself, to your families, and your community... not to mention the educational institutions in which you may come from. They've all expected more from you... not violence. Nothing will come of it. The fact is: Your "PR campaign" only brought ill-will against you. Your comments of explitives towards most responses those against you.. and EVEN those who actually agree with your view of the war but differ in how you handled your protest -- are sad. You've all proven that you lack maturity, verbal skills and critical thinking... you've shown the world that your IQ's = that of the number of you who only got away with a slap on the wrist tonight (I believe it was 21?). I leave you with 2 quotes/points: 1- "Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence. Any man who has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle. " - Alexander Solzhenitsyn (1918-?) Russian novelist, dramatist and historian. Point: Because you used violence, you are no better/nor above those who you criticize. 2 - "Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral questions of our time; the need for mankind to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to oppression and violence. Mankind must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love." - Martin Luther King Jr., December 11, 1964 US black civil rights leader & clergyman (1929 - 1968) Point: READ THAT, THINK ABOUT IT and USE THAT next time to make a point. MLK got alot farther than you - you can learn something from him. ... and if you want to respond to THAT with expletives - than you've proven my points exactly about your intelligence (lack thereof). Me> direct action 20.03.2007 - 22:58 A lot of these comments are made with such little information that they are completely outrageous. the military wife that says this should be damage to federal property, everyone saying the army is protecting our rights to do this... right, i'm so sure that's basically what they're all about. and everyone saying how violent it is to break some glass. let me say: NO ONE GOT HURT. NO ONE GOT HURT. NO ONE GOT HURT. do you get it? AND: let's presume this: DAMAGING PROPERTY IS VIOLENT. And so is killing a rapist out of self defense. THIS IS VIOLENCE. But it doesn't illegitmize the situation. there is a key difference. this doesn't make our actions 'ironic', sure who doesn't want peace? but you can't fight a machine with flowers. Huey Netwon said something like 'human existance is violent, i exist therefore I'm violent'. I can't deny that I am a violent person, I don't think that makes my actions more or less illegitmate than a peace march. If I thought that would be more effective, of course an option where no one got hurt would be the choice, right? Well, no one got hurt anyways and I'm gonna say this is gonna spark a lot more people then a sign holding protest, who doesn't see that every day? AND YOU FUCKING NAZIS CAN GROW A DICK AND STOP THREATENING MY FUCKING FRIENDS AND PUSSY OUT ON YOUR ACTIONS THAT YOU ALWAYS CLAIM YOURE GONNA DO ON INDYMEDIA. anon> Pacifist Liberals 20.03.2007 - 23:01 Hey, recognize a few things: 1: This action garnered more media coverage than any peaceful protest. It is being covered nationwide. So don't talk about be ineffective 2: All the people involved in this do a lot more than militant action, I personally know of kids who are involved daily in peaceful anti-war actions, community building, counter-recruitment and a vast diversity of tactics that will bring the war to an end. 3: People who destroy government property are not hypocrits. This wasn't an action against violence, it was an action against the imperialist slaughter being waged all over the world in the name of the "war on terror" 4: Go hold up some more peace signs and have a sing-along if you are really that upset. Sykes> It's On! 20.03.2007 - 23:06 When I first heard plans for this action, I was skeptical, but it turned out awesome. Midwest does it the best! ;) Emma Goldenbike> I've seen the light... 20.03.2007 - 23:39 My points proven. Fight a machine with flowers is a nice cliche... and oh so original. MLK and Ghandhi made change in the world with nonviolence and creative protest. Ghandhi literally fought with flowers and won. Obviously you've learned nothing from them/their legacy. The only thing people will remember of your actions is vandalism. Wheras those who enact positive change with nonviolence are celebrated for eternity and their causes are carried on by future generations so the sins of the past never are repeated. If no one agrees with you or your actions you scold, scorn and argue, nor do you want to entertain thoughts such as the ones presented for you to ponder - only to shoot them down. Ignorance. All it's gotten you is some national (negative) press. ... And an entire country shaking their heads at the blinders you unknowningly wear. (even though they want and end to the war to). me> Brave little wieners! 20.03.2007 - 23:48 Yep, the kiddies were out playing ninja. Got super tough and nasty-with no one around. Big brass balls you children have. Folks that stand for their beliefs show ther faces. cowards wear masks. Why? Because cowards have no conviction, they are just too scared the big bad cops are gonna tag their ass. Your bravery is....missing. As if any of you ever gave a rat's ass about 3000+ soldiers dying. I'll bet you love it every time your hear another has died. C'mon, admit it! You get a real woody, don't you? Navy Vet> e-mail:: haroldmanwaring@yahoo.com . 21.03.2007 - 01:09 This was a nonviolent act against property. It woke up a city that has to make NO sacrifices in a conflict that they have NO control over. And honestly, we should have no say for that very reason. It does not affect us. 80% of Iraqis, on the other hand, support immediate withdrawal, and that wish needs to be honored. A broken window. I wish for all you people whining about their precious tax dollars to apply the same logic to people in Iraq who are every bit as much human beings as you. It's great that some semblance of damage, of cost, was brought home to you. Weigh how you feel about a broken window against how Iraqis feel about their broken country, and you'd better feel fucking selfish and privileged. The Peace 'Action' event got no coverage. People outside of the activist (no matter what their political persuasion) community would have otherwise had every opportunity to forget there is a war on, and that they are contributing to it with their passivity. The fact that there is so much discussion about this is a victory for the kids that made it happen. kilgore trout> I heart Milwaukee 21.03.2007 - 01:29 Much Love Respect and Revolutionary Solidarity from NYC. Your courage has spread small waves of inspiration around the world. Thanks We shut down a recruitment center here in Brooklyn, but only very briefly and with a little less style  http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2007/03/84225.html Keep rockin' on and don't let the haters get you down for "we are not in the least afraid of ruins. We carry a new world here, in our hearts." Dumpster> Homepage:: http://bombsandshields.blogspot.com/ attentat doesn't work 21.03.2007 - 06:30 personally I like the anarchy A's all over the class war sign. Reminds me of being a freshman in highschool and thinking the exact same thing. O wouldn't Anarchy be cool because then that government couldn't control us, the police couldn't do what they wanted to us, the army couldn't kill who they wanted etc etc etc. Then I grew up and realized a few things. The army keeps us safe, the military protects our right to protest what they are doing, and the government, well the government keeps us out of Anarchy which would be the worst possible thing for us. If we slipped into Anarchy...well...figure in a year, after the worst of the riots have stopped, no one has any property anymore because its all been stolen and restolen, and everybody has lost at least one family member to murder (and I do mean everybody), then we can all speak Chinese to our new government. And I garuntee that on your 19th birthday, when you try doing this again, you'll get more than a little slap on the wrist. I encourage each and every one of you who participated in this "symbolic demonstration" to take some time off from your bong and travel. Try going to Russia, China, or Cuba and spend some time with your comrades. By all means, they won't mind your protests against their totalitarian regime in which the government actually DOES do whatever they want. Perhaps you'll have a great time in the Middle East Big Mama, where they'll make you cover your head and spend all your time in the house not speaking until spoken to. Will you all send me a postcard from Singapore to tell me how much fun your having in a country where chewing gum is illegal and they open your mail to check for such contraband. Those of you of legal age to engage in sexual actions will be pleased to know that any sexual act that could not potentially result in pregnancy is illegal (yes that means blowjobs) If you get sick, make sure to go to Canada where they're free healthcare will result in you sitting in a waiting room for a week before you get help from a doctor who finished last in his class since the top in his class all came to America. Go ahead and call me a closet homosexual neonazi rich white conservative. Or whatever your rhetoric demands I be called. Be proud that your tantrum got nationwide attention and people from Clevland and New York know the same 3 phrases that you do. Solditariy comrade, Wave your banner high and ignore the haters. But please stop giving the same false reasons for your actions. The young ones, you think you want Anarchy but you don't. No body with a semblance of intelligence wants Anarchy. Your just upset for a variety of highischool reasons and instead of finding Dashboard Confessional to help you cry you find Anti-Flag to help make you a retard. And you older members, shame on you for manipulating the youths in order to help you feel more important. Its your job to teach youths and instead you poison them to fullfill your half-cocked agenda. You talk of more protests in the coming months but Emma Goldman, if you know who that is (and you should, being Anarchists and all), said "...It is quite another thing to make a principle of terrorism, to institutionalize it to assign it the most vital place in the social struggle. Such terrorism begets counter-revolution and in turn itself becomes counter-revolutionary." There are problems with the government and their foreign policies. Yes we've been screwing up in the Middle East since the 40's when the Allied powers carved the Nation of Isreal out of the middle of Muslim land. I'm not debating the pro's and/or cons of Zionism because the Middle East is the home of Judasim, Islam, and Christianity. That land has been fought over for thousands of years and the land will be fought over for thousands more and it doesn't matter if the UN has a presence there or not. The Patriot Act sucks, yes. Same as any other person that gets high, I oppose it. The intelligent person realizes that defacing a US Army Recruiting office will not garnish any positive public opinion on the subject but will instead only create negative opinion. You want things changed, write a letter, if you can write, to your congressman or senator. Russ Feingold was the only US Senator to oppose the act and he's got an office right here in Milwaukee as well as one in Madison and one in La Crosse. But you don't want that. You want attention like any other spoiled child. If you cared about changing something, you would try something that works. But negative attention is still attention and thats what you crave. Grow up scotch> New york backs terrorisim now? 21.03.2007 - 06:46 I'm surprised that a guy from New York of all places is backing these terrorists. The only difference between these jerk offs and the hijackers is that the hijackers had the balls to attack a place they knew had people. These local terrorists attacked a place that they thought had no one in it. HOWEVER there was a lady who lived on the top floor that had nothing to do with this I'm sure that was scared out of her own house Guy Guy> response to "me" 21.03.2007 - 07:07 To "Me": this is why what you say is problematic: "MLK and Ghandhi made change in the world with nonviolence and creative protest. Ghandhi literally fought with flowers and won." This is the most ignorant and one-sided knowledge of history that one can imagine. It is continually propagated as the correct view of civil rights and decolonization, but is entirely static. Do you really think Gandhi would have helped liberate India if the British empire was not in decline everywhere else? Seriously: think about this. If the Viet Mind would have done a salt march in Vietnam in 1950 they would have gotten completely killed. The British would have completely killed Gandhi (look at the Mau Mau uprising and the repression which followed) had the British not been forced to abandon their colonial holdings all over the world. And, regarding MLK, have you forgotten the rise of Black Militancy all over the United States (Robert Williams, Malcolm X...), the demands of which made the legislation of 1964 almost pale? Or the fact that, before he was killed, MLK was ADVOCATING MILITANT DIRECT ACTION against the Vietnam War? "Obviously you've learned nothing from them/their legacy." You've disgraced their legacies by only acknowledging the cursory myths which surround them and failing to look at the bigger spectrum of historical events. "The only thing people will remember of your actions is vandalism." The support people have given on this site alone proves this statement to be straight up wrong. "Wheras those who enact positive change with nonviolence are celebrated for eternity and their causes are carried on by future generations so the sins of the past never are repeated." This is an awkward fragment. I can't believe your historic ignorance. Can you remember the BOSTON TEA PARTY (violent by your standards)? Do any of you know how much damage was done in the Boston Tea Party? What about the horribly violent American Revolution? Clearly not "nonviolent" but the participants are certainly remembered. Everyone who was critical of this action in Milwaukee had better ALSO REPUDIATE THE BOSTON TEA PARTY! Because if you don't you are a raging hypocrite! "If no one agrees with you or your actions you scold, scorn and argue, nor do you want to entertain thoughts such as the ones presented for you to ponder - only to shoot them down." What are you doing then? Isn't argumentation healthy for movement building? If someone criticized you, wouldn't you attempt to defend your position? Why should someone automatically believe another person who contradicts them? This makes no sense. "All it's gotten you is some national (negative) press. ... And an entire country shaking their heads at the blinders you unknowningly wear. (even though they want and end to the war to)." Actually, it has created a bigger discussion on anti-war tactics than I've seen in years. It is receiving national solidarity. Should anyone refrain from tactics just because they are unpopular? Every boring normal rally is completely ignored! Almost no press at all! When 12 people marched around the world on March 15th, 2003, in the largest worldwide coordinated protest in history, guess what: it was dismissed the next day as a "focus group"! Shouldn't this convince you, or at least give you pause for thought, that normal tactics aren't doing anything to stop America's imperialist war? You pathetic liberals and your inability to see anything larger than yourselves. Where is your sense of solidarity? Why are you siding with people who want the war to continue, to distance yourself from an action you only tactically disagree with? Why are you willing to abandon the radical left so quickly when you feel your image my be tarnished? The mainstream left has such a terrible reputation worldwide--maybe if you showed a bit of solidarity it would improve and you could actually accomplish something besides more meaningless rallies, forgotten the next day, existing only so people can feel good about themselves without having sacrificed the slightest. too hesh to handle> Vicarious Liability? 21.03.2007 - 07:18 Let me get this straight? You have a bunch of people on a march, a few of whom commit vandalism, but everyone present gets charged? And the police/prosecutors have no idea s to who actully broke the window? Ben Masel> e-mail:: bmasel@tds.net A little defense from Peace Action! 21.03.2007 - 07:24 These comments are from a journal sentinel article. Perhaps the mainstream left is beginning to show some solidarity? Clearly this is a very safe position to take, but it isn't condemning at least. It is a start, anyway. ............ Peace Action Wisconsin does not condone violence, said the group's project organizer Julie Enslow, but some anti-war protesters might feel the need to be violent to get their point across. "We do not use those tactics ourselves, but the movement is very broad, and as this war continues, the anti-war movement is going to take many forms - not all of which everyone feels comfortable with," Enslow said. hesh> o rly? 21.03.2007 - 07:47 people use the word islamo-fascist seriously? REALLY? they've really gotten into you, haven't they?? captain cupcake> Thanks 21.03.2007 - 09:09 You know, Republicans are going to need all the help they can get in 2008. This sort of thing, along with burning the US servicman in effigy in Portland, will help them out. The looney left flag burning America haters got Richard Nixon elected President twice. Hillary or Obama won't have a chance next year if you lefties keep this sort of thing going. Stu> Symbolic action good functional action better 21.03.2007 - 09:50 While this action was interesting and all, it had very little tangible effect. Media coverage, sure, great, but the recruitment center was open two days later. Now some people have said that burning it down wouldn't be good because their were apartments above it. Fine. In the future, throw phosphorous, not paint. Flash-burn the office without risking the structure. That will actually result in tangible results, one less recruitment center. Files destroyed, recruitment lists lost, futures/lives saved. Better living through recreational pyrotechnics. Rev. Stoic> e-mail:: rev-stoic@hotmail.com Homepage:: http://www.revleft.com Reply to Ben Masel 21.03.2007 - 09:55 Ben, it's thoughts like these that prove why you can't win elections. They were not all arrested because they cant figure out who broke the window. the arrests were made because they were all part of the group that acted in the manor. Everyone who wore a mask, marched with the rest of the terrorists, or held a torch in that area got arrested because of coonspiracy. Lets put it this way Ben, if there was a group of people wearing masks outside your house and one of them cut down your marijuana plants but you didn't see who did it because of the masks what would you do? Guy> Some more history 21.03.2007 - 10:08 Since someone has already brought up the Boston Tea Party, here's a little more history. First, to those calling protesters "cowards" for wearing masks, I'd point out that the Sons of Liberty showed up for their tea-flinging disguised as warriors of the Mohawk Nation. So I'm sure you also apply your accusations of cowardice to Paul Revere, John Henry, John & Samuel Adams, and John Hancock. Second, that act of vandalism destroyed 45 TONS of commercial goods worth 10,000 British Pounds. Of course, some people thought this went too far. In fact, no less of a statesman than Benjamin Franklin offered to pay for the tea himself. So even on the eve of Revolution, some will still cling to non-violent forms of protest. So here's to open debate, and ending imperialism in whatever way you may see fit. EthrDemon> Guy: 21.03.2007 - 10:25 Diversify my planting, to less obvious locations. Ben Masel> A Response to the m19 Action 21.03.2007 - 11:36 As a participant, please allow me to explain Monday’s action. This action was both a response to military presence in our schools and communities, our often-ignored voice as youth, and as a part of the larger movement to resist the militarization of American society. The media continues to propagate lies concerning anti-war protests including the myth that we threatened people's health and wellbeing, as well as the myth surrounding human waste, which was a complete fabrication by the police. But people must not shy away from the spotlight. Resistance is flourishing across the country, and the world. We must all continue to push for active resistance while supporting those Americans already in resistance, both civilians and veterans. We do not feel the time is right to passively stand by as two wars destroy Afghanistan and Iraq, and as our civil liberties are taken away day by day through acts passed by congress including the Patriot 2 and the Military Commissions Act. As a 9/11 survivor, I know what violence and destruction can cause. I also know the power of peaceful protests. I participated in this action not because I believe we need more violence in the world, but because I am frustrated with the continuing violence set upon all the people in Iraq and Afghanistan, Americans and others. I am anti-violence, and participated in this non-violent protest to struggle against violence in the world. Passive demonstrations have won the anti-war movement notoriety and the sympathy of the majority in this country. But we cannot be content with these successes. Now is the time for direct action against structures of war. Such direct action can and should remain peaceful. We must look for inspiration from such actions as the recent protests by the Pittsburgh Organizing Group surrounding Carnegie Mellon University ( http://www.organizepittsburgh.org/m2/), as well as the ongoing protests by Students for a Democratic Society surrounding the Port of Tacoma militarization ( http://www.tacomasds.org/). Because the corporate media has largely ignored the most recent protests and vigils occurring in Wisconsin, I feel it is more necessary than ever to confront the institutions of war directly, so that our presence cannot be ignored. We have the spotlight, now is not the time to turn in on ourselves. We must not falter. It is clear that politicians do not have the will to end the war in Iraq, do we? A Participant> e-mail:: mkeanarchy@gmail.com Bullshit 21.03.2007 - 12:02 A PARTICIPANT: "As a participant, please allow me to explain Monday’s action. This action was both a response to military presence in our schools and communities, our often-ignored voice as youth, and as a part of the larger movement to resist the militarization of American society." So what did this action accomplish? Did it get the military recruiters out of the schools? Did it make pulling out of Iraq any closer? Does it help the Iraqi people? Or did it just make you feel good because you felt angsty about how society's given you a bun deal? My bet's the latter. If you actually wanted to fix these problems you could have participated in an anti-JROTC organization or supported groups that are working towards the ending of the war. But you didn't. You broke a window. Good job. "The media continues to propagate lies concerning anti-war protests including the myth that we threatened people's health and wellbeing, as well as the myth surrounding human waste, which was a complete fabrication by the police. But people must not shy away from the spotlight. Resistance is flourishing across the country, and the world. We must all continue to push for active resistance while supporting those Americans already in resistance, both civilians and veterans." Well, duh the media lies. So what? Did this action change this? Was this action supposed to represent the fact that most Americans are against the war? We already knew that. Hell, this action wasn't even popularly supported. It was a waste of time. Deal with it. "We do not feel the time is right to passively stand by as two wars destroy Afghanistan and Iraq, and as our civil liberties are taken away day by day through acts passed by congress including the Patriot 2 and the Military Commissions Act." Then how about doing something that's actually productive instead of just breaking windows? How about doing something that actually changes the situation instead of doing something that makes you feel better? I guess that's asking too much of you. "As a 9/11 survivor, I know what violence and destruction can cause. I also know the power of peaceful protests. I participated in this action not because I believe we need more violence in the world, but because I am frustrated with the continuing violence set upon all the people in Iraq and Afghanistan, Americans and others. I am anti-violence, and participated in this non-violent protest to struggle against violence in the world." And it did fuck-all to stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Again, this action was completely unproductive with respect to the anti-war movement and did nothing more than make you and your little friends feel big and important. Kinda reminds me of that time when you guys tipped a bunch of dumpsters over in the street to make some kind of lame political statment about the monotony of some people's lives; the problem was that nobody cared about your stupid political statement. Because of you, working people were late to work and some working people had to clean up your shit. You guys are idiots. "Now is the time for direct action against structures of war. Such direct action can and should remain peaceful. We must look for inspiration from such actions as the recent protests by the Pittsburgh Organizing Group surrounding Carnegie Mellon University (  http://www.organizepittsburgh.org/m2/), as well as the ongoing protests by Students for a Democratic Society surrounding the Port of Tacoma militarization (  http://www.tacomasds.org/). Because the corporate media has largely ignored the most recent protests and vigils occurring in Wisconsin, I feel it is more necessary than ever to confront the institutions of war directly, so that our presence cannot be ignored." Breaking a recruiting center window doesn't do anything! Get that through your thick fucking skull. "We have the spotlight, now is not the time to turn in on ourselves. We must not falter. It is clear that politicians do not have the will to end the war in Iraq, do we?" Obviously not, because you're not doing anything to end the war. Breaking a window won't end the war, no matter how much you think it will. Grow up. KC> Your Going to Jail!!! 21.03.2007 - 12:07 You do know that all of these photographs have been sent to the Milwaukee Police and the FBI. They will be on the lookout for the guys who vandalized the recruiter office. Wolverines> POLICE WATCH INDYMEDIA 21.03.2007 - 12:12 What has been said on indymedia has and will be used against people in the court of law. No one should claim to be a participant. Or freely give any information about the march unless they take certain safety measures to achieve anonymity. a herd of kittens> Growing Up? 21.03.2007 - 12:27 I've seen the phrase "Grow up!" thrown around a lot, and I'd like to know what that actually entails, particularly in relation to tactics. Am I to assume that "grown-ups" are those individuals who march on approved routes, don't cause any trouble and get completely ignored? If so... who the fuck would want to grow up? It sounds pretty boring and meaningless. How many comments did the articles about their shit generate? And this? Say what you want, but damn if those crazy kids didn't get lots of people talking. youthful abandon> Kudos to Milwaukee 21.03.2007 - 12:35 Personally, I don't think an action like trashing a Recruiting Center is called for at this time (however, if the U.S. attacks Iran...). Nonetheless, kudos for taking action. (A similar incident took place in Minneapolis in the spring of 1986, after Ronald Reagan began a dangerous escalation of U.S. forces in Honduras. A recruiting center was trashed and a similar debate ensued.) The folks slamming these kids and claiming it hurts the image of the so-called "peace movement" need to extract their heads from their collective asses. As others have pointed out, the "peace movement" is already widely hated and this relatively minor incident isn't likely to change many minds on either side. And I can't believe the arrogance and conceit expressed by some of those who think holding hands, carrying signs and singing kum-bah-yah was somehow instrumental in "educating the public" (a blatently condescending phrase if there ever was one) on the war and occupation of Iraq. The majority of the public now opposes the war, yes. But it is not because they've experienced an epiphany about the evils of war. It's because they're bored and tired of the fact that the U.S. is losing in Iraq (or "not winning" as some might see it). Recent polls indicate that if Bush were to attack Iran tomorrow, he would enjoy the support of the majority of Americans. So much for "educating the public." Again, kudos to Milwaukee. If and when the next war starts, we're going to need more folks like you. -timmy timmy ramone> Homepage:: http:// http://www.browncross.com/usualsuspects/ Ageism 21.03.2007 - 14:08 Some fucktard writes: "personally I like the anarchy A's all over the class war sign. Reminds me of being a freshman in highschool and thinking the exact same thing. O wouldn't Anarchy be cool because then that government couldn't control us, the police couldn't do what they wanted to us, the army couldn't kill who they wanted etc etc etc. Then I grew up and realized a few things. The army keeps us safe, the military protects our right to protest what they are doing, and the government, well the government keeps us out of Anarchy which would be the worst possible thing for us. If we slipped into Anarchy...well...figure in a year, after the worst of the riots have stopped, no one has any property anymore because its all been stolen and restolen, and everybody has lost at least one family member to murder (and I do mean everybody), then we can all speak Chinese to our new government. And I garuntee that on your 19th birthday, when you try doing this again, you'll get more than a little slap on the wrist. I encourage each and every one of you who participated in this "symbolic demonstration" to take some time off from your bong and travel. Try going to Russia, China, or Cuba and spend some time with your comrades." You guys are going to have to try harder if you want to diss anarchists. The ageism angle is tired and worn out. What you guys don't seem to get is that anarchism is not some phase that young people go through, anymore than being a Socialist or Democrat is a phase of youth. Anarchists come in all shapes and ages. The ones who participated in this march may have mostly been younger anarchists, but the anarchist movement is not a youth movement. Anarchism has been around for almost 150 years, so it is a serious political philosophy. If you want your criticisms to be taken seriously, then try engaging anarchists on our politics and not on some stupid stereotype. Chuck Munson> responding to "fucktards" 21.03.2007 - 14:32 Abbie Hoffman died an anarchist at 51. Dorothy Day was still an anarchist in her 80s. John Ross (oops sorry, john.) strike that. johnross is still an anarchist and he's older than you and me put together.  http://www.angelfire.com/wi/kokopeli/yipl.html marco> laughing 21.03.2007 - 14:42 I like how you stopped quoting me just before you had to say something useful. How was algebra today, by the way? scotch> again 21.03.2007 - 14:52 as I assume that I'm fucktard since thats what Munson called me and marco is probably too cool to read up and figure out what munson was referencing... First, I'm suprised you didn't mention Emma Goldman, possibly the most famous Anarchist who was something like 80 when she died. Second, it doesn't matter that 5 people were old anarchists. Show me the average age and perhaps I will listen. What your trying to do Marco is slant the truth. One step above actually straight up lying. Try having a solid enough argument to defend both sides of it. zomg! Steal this post!!!11!!1! scotch> BEWARE!!! BEWARE!!! BEWARE!!! 21.03.2007 - 15:17 Information about an organization or individual can be (and often is) obtained by placing an informer or infiltrator. This person may be a police officer, employee of a federal agency, someone who has been charged or convicted of criminal activity and has agreed to "help" instead of serve time, a member of an organization (YAF or College Republicans) or business, or anyone from the public. Once someone joins an organization for the purposes of gathering information, the line between data gathering and participation blurs. Two types of infiltrators result -- someone who is under "deep cover" and adapts to the lifestyle of the people they are infiltrating. These people may maintain their cover for many years, and an organization may never know who these people are. AGENTS "PROVOCATEUR" ARE MORE VISIBLE, BECAUSE THEY WILL DELIBERATELY ATTEMPT TO DISRUPT OR LEAD THE GROUP INTO ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. They often become involved just as an event or crisis is occurring, and leave town or drop out after the organizing slows down. An agent may: Volunteer for tasks which provide access to important meetings and papers such as financial records, membership lists, minutes and confidential files. Not follow through or complete tasks, or else does them poorly despite an obvious ability to do good work. Cause problems for a group such as committing it to activities or expenses without following proper channels; urge a group to plan activities that divide group unity. Seem to create or be in the middle of personal or political differences that slow the work of the group. Seek the public spotlight, in the name of your group, and then make comments or present an image different from the rest of the group. Urge the use of violence or breaking the law, and provide information and resources to enable such ventures. Have no obvious source of income over a period of time, or have more money available than his or her job should pay. Charge other people with being agents, (a process called snitch-jackets), thereby diverting attention from him or herself, and draining the group's energy from other work. These are not the only signs, nor is a person who fits several of these categories necessarily an agent. Be extremely cautious and do not call another person an agent without having substantial evidence. Courts have consistently found that an individual who provides information, even if it is incriminating, to an informer has not had his or her Constitutional rights violated. This includes the use of tape recorders or electronic transmitters as well. Lawsuits in Los Angeles, Chicago and elsewhere (during the 1970’s and early 80’s), alleging infiltration of lawful political groups resulted in court orders limiting the use of police informers and infiltrators. (Some of these have since been overridden in different venues.) If you find evidence of surveillance Hold a meeting to discuss spying and harassment. Determine if any of your members have experienced any harassment or noticed any surveillance activities that appear to be directed at the organization's activities. Carefully record all the details of these and see if any patterns develop. Review past suspicious activities or difficulties in your group. Has/Have one or several people been involved in many of these events? List other possible "evidence" of infiltration. Develop an internal policy on how the group should respond to any possible surveillance or suspicious actions. Decide who should be the contact person(s), what information should be recorded, what process to follow during any event or demonstration if disruption tactics are used. Consider holding a public meeting to discuss spying in your community and around the country. Schedule a speaker or film discussing political surveillance. John Smith> I'm an informer! 21.03.2007 - 15:44 let me make it easy for you john smith. If I try to join this group, its for the purpose of putting all its members in jail. Or in a small room with people in the armed forces. J. Doe> fuck yeah!!!!!! 21.03.2007 - 15:44 you guys rule!!!! just do it...> Confirmation 21.03.2007 - 16:54 Has anyone actually confirmed that feces were used? Also, how do they know they're human feces if they were used? I'm just wondering because from what I've heard (from the news), they were smeared inside the recruiting center, but no one actually got into the recruiting center. minik> Response to "Stu" and "KC" 21.03.2007 - 17:03 This is a response to both Stu and KC Stu said: "The looney left flag burning America haters got Richard Nixon elected President twice. Hillary or Obama won't have a chance next year if you lefties keep this sort of thing going." I don't think anyone is going to take you seriously. Is your knowledge of history so simplistic that "flag burning" is what got Nixon elected? It wasn't that the democrats supported a pro-Vietnam candidate, which polarized the popular left and divided the democrats? As for Hillary and Obama: the democrats are as responsible for the war in Iraq as the republicans: they were enthusiastic about starting it and they haven't done the slightest thing to end it. Putting our faith in another democrat to end the war is just ignorant. Empire can't be voted out of office; it must be taken down by the people who live at its heart. And it CERTAINLY won't provide the mechanisms (i.e. voting) for its own destruction. KC said: "So what did this action accomplish? Did it get the military recruiters out of the schools? Did it make pulling out of Iraq any closer? Does it help the Iraqi people? Or did it just make you feel good because you felt angsty about how society's given you a bun deal? My bet's the latter." Please, KC, tell me ONE ACTION which will accomplish any of the above singlehandedly. Please. The same criticism could be made of ANY one action, no matter how peaceful, because no one action will ever accomplish such a major task. NO ONE is under the impression that one rally or one direct action will accomplish any of those tasks (except you, apparently). Getting recruiters out of schools, getting America out of Iraq, helping the Iraqi people all require an entire movement of people. And part of movement building is accepting a diversity of tactics--from vigils to peaceful rallies to direct action. Did, to bring up a common thread, the Boston Tea Party win the American Revolution? Certainly not, but it did help create an atmosphere where radical action could take place. So what did this action accomplish? We'll, it has created a discussion all around Milwaukee about anti-war tactics which didn't exist before. It has reminded people that there is still a war going on, and there are people who oppose it. Obviously no financial damage was done--I'm sure they have insurance (and I doubt financial damage was the point). But, as is clear from the responses, a lot of people were inspired by the action and stand by those who participated. That inspiration is critical for a long-term campaign. Keep in mind, also, that NOT ONE peace rally or vigil in Milwaukee has attracted national attention. Obviously not everyone is going to be comfortable with the tactics. But, guess what: as the new article in the journal sentinel points out, it may only be the beginning. "If you actually wanted to fix these problems you could have participated in an anti-JROTC organization or supported groups that are working towards the ending of the war. But you didn't. You broke a window. Good job." As I said, broad movements must include a diversity of actions. Anti-JROTC campaigns may well get more attention now because of this action. They owe that attention to the angry mob. These activities don't work in isolation. And if the people in the mob had a problem with tactics of these organizations, why should they be forced to work with them? Why should people limit their resistance because certain things are unpopular? And how else to you make certain tactics more supported without doing them? The fact that you proscribe a one-type-of-activity-fits-all to the movement just demonstrates how authoritarian your thinking is, and how unable to embrace other forms of activism you are. Try opening up! Its more fun than complaining. "Well, duh the media lies. So what? Did this action change this? Was this action supposed to represent the fact that most Americans are against the war? We already knew that. Hell, this action wasn't even popularly supported. It was a waste of time. Deal with it." I don't know why you asked the first question: clearly the angry mob wasn't protesting the media or attempting to change the media. But the fact that they have used indymedia to spread their views demonstrates a commitment to alternative media you seem to have misunderstood. People have been limiting themselves to actions which are "popularly supported" and look where it has gotten the movement, and the war. Imagine, now, if these angry mobs took place in every major city in the United States. If just 40 people in each major city had the courage to act out in this way across the US--wouldn't that change the course of the debate? "Then how about doing something that's actually productive instead of just breaking windows? How about doing something that actually changes the situation instead of doing something that makes you feel better? I guess that's asking too much of you." How on earth can you make those assumptions? Are you really so short-sighted as to assume that people with the commitment to plan and execute this action are just going to sit around the other 364 days a year and not do anything? This comment of yours was almost too ignorant to acknowledge, unless you can somehow prove that no one involved does anything else "productive" with their time. "And it did fuck-all to stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Again, this action was completely unproductive with respect to the anti-war movement and did nothing more than make you and your little friends feel big and important. Kinda reminds me of that time when you guys tipped a bunch of dumpsters over in the street to make some kind of lame political statment about the monotony of some people's lives; the problem was that nobody cared about your stupid political statement. Because of you, working people were late to work and some working people had to clean up your shit. You guys are idiots." Hiding behind insults again? More crude assumptions about people's motives? Again assuming that one action will stop a war waged by the most powerful military force in history? Your arguments are reaching new levels of ridiculousness here. Quick challenge: find me one revolution where no one had to clean up a little mess in the streets, and I'll take your garbage out for a week. Real change is not quick, easy or clean. "Breaking a recruiting center window doesn't do anything! Get that through your thick fucking skull." Yikes! I can see you getting angrier as you type. I've already demonstrated some of what this action has accomplished--the fact that we have having this discussion, and that so many people are reading it, should be considered proof enough that it did do something. I mean, what else could you expect any one action to do besides reframe the debate for some people, inspire others and also upset quite a few? Seems to have done that... "Obviously not, because you're not doing anything to end the war. Breaking a window won't end the war, no matter how much you think it will. Grow up." The "growing up" issue has already been answered. In conclusion, your comments suggest you know very little about movement building or solidarity. But look on the bright side: because of the efforts of many activists, you have the ability to continue your ill-informed tirade on indymedia. Looking forward to your next exhausting installment. non-participant> just bloody brilliant 21.03.2007 - 21:10 Q: Was the entire group responsible for the vandalism? Did they all know there was going to be violence? Were the people who broke the windows and all that even arrested? A: No. No. And no. I'm among those arrested and all I did was march. Didn't even carry a banner or flag. It breaks my heart that people like me took the blow for people who decided to take things too far. I've been getting threats and pissy letters because of all this. And for what? Jack shit. Sure, it's the cops' fault, too, but at least they're just doing their jobs. Don't get me wrong, I'm just as much against this war as the next guy, but I try to see things from both sides and what it all boils down to is innocent kids paying the price for the few who did the damage. Brilliant, eh? right on> . 21.03.2007 - 22:18 . .. .> Anarchy in the USA 21.03.2007 - 22:20 hey riverwest kids: take a shower, quit throwing poo around. take off your masks. post your pictures here you pansies. mom and dad must be proud. PEACE VIA VANDALISM! boy you really got the media stirring. and thoughts are provoked. you're changing the world. i think we're pulling out of iraq tomorrow because of you. i love how the High School level writers in the Journal Sentinel took cover for you guys today---- you were all just "frustrated". sounds justified to me. now go back to your Riverwest apartments and SHOWER. wash off your anger and stupidity. Eugene Eugene Kane> You Guys Are Cool. 21.03.2007 - 22:31 Wow. I am embarassed to be in the same age group as most of you morons. Pretty much everything that I have read on here made my head spin with its ignorance. What makes you think that vandalizing that building makes your side of the argument right? If anything you just made yourselves look like disrespectful idiots and made your views look worse as well. Maybe before you guys decide to take on the enormous task of world peace, you should take on the task of learning respect. Also, he army recruiting building did not do anything to you. If anything, the army recruiting center just stood there and offered choices for Milwaukee's young men and women. How dumb are you? Did you even know your parent's tax money goes to the government; who supports the army? And did you know, that more of your parent's tax money has to go and be wasted on repairing something that didn't even need repairing in the first place? I could go on, but you probably wouldn't read it. I guess my main point is that you guys are seriously retarded. johnanderin> non-participant 21.03.2007 - 22:33 "Please, KC, tell me ONE ACTION which will accomplish any of the above singlehandedly. Please. The same criticism could be made of ANY one action, no matter how peaceful, because no one action will ever accomplish such a major task. " Obviously one action won't do much, but the fact is that this single action didn't do anything in furthering any of our overall goals. It was a waste of time. "NO ONE is under the impression that one rally or one direct action will accomplish any of those tasks (except you, apparently). Getting recruiters out of schools, getting America out of Iraq, helping the Iraqi people all require an entire movement of people. And part of movement building is accepting a diversity of tactics--from vigils to peaceful rallies to direct action. Did, to bring up a common thread, the Boston Tea Party win the American Revolution? Certainly not, but it did help create an atmosphere where radical action could take place." Hahaha. You're comparing this action to the Boston Tea Party? That's hilarious, considering the fact that the Boston Tea Party was an action that was supported widely by the majority of the movement at the time, whereas this action is hardly supported by a minority of the movement. There's a time for direct action, and that's when it's supported by the movement. Until that time, it's pointless and unproductive (even counterproductive, as it could lead to further alienation and oppression). "So what did this action accomplish? We'll, it has created a discussion all around Milwaukee about anti-war tactics which didn't exist before." It's not a discussion so much as a condemnation of the tactics used in this action. I haven't heard anyone except the participants and their friends and other anarchists support this action. This isn't going to stir up a big debate; it's just outraged a lot of people and caused yourselves to be alienated from the rest of the movement. "It has reminded people that there is still a war going on, and there are people who oppose it." I'm pretty sure everyone knew there was a war going on, and I'm also pretty sure everyone knew that there are people who oppose it. This action did nothing more than make people say "the anarchists are at it again". I have nothing against anarchists in general, but I do have something against actions like this. "But, as is clear from the responses, a lot of people were inspired by the action and stand by those who participated." Compared to the anti-war movement as a whole, it's a incredibly small amount. "But, guess what: as the new article in the journal sentinel points out, it may only be the beginning. " Because these people will just perform more of the same acts. These actions will never get mass support because they're unproductive and don't get us closer to our overall goal of pulling out of Iraq. "The fact that you proscribe a one-type-of-activity-fits-all to the movement just demonstrates how authoritarian your thinking is, and how unable to embrace other forms of activism you are." Actually, I'm not proscribing any such thing. I support actions when they are productive and will criticize them when they aren't. This action wasn't productive. Therefore, I don't support it. "Try opening up! Its more fun than complaining." I'm not politically active for fun. I'm not here to make myself feel better; I'm here to implement change. "People have been limiting themselves to actions which are "popularly supported" and look where it has gotten the movement, and the war." I do agree with your criticism that the anti-war movement so far hasn't been successful in its overall goal, and that if it continues to perform the same way it has then it will never be successful. But I don't think actions like this are going to be productive. The problem with the anti-war movement is that it's trying to appeal to the government to pull out. This won't work. What we need to do is support Iraqis in opposing both the occupation and the fundamentalist resistance. We should support Iraqis in creating an independent, secular, democratic government. That is why we should support the Iraq Freedom Congress. That is my solution to the problem; not smashing a window. I'd rather support the Iraqis who want independence, who are gaining support daily, both nationally and internationally. "Imagine, now, if these angry mobs took place in every major city in the United States. If just 40 people in each major city had the courage to act out in this way across the US--wouldn't that change the course of the debate? " Imagine if class society never came into being. Wouldn't that be just dandy? What-if's are irrelevant. Moreover, if 40 people in each major city did this, then the government would use this as a pretext to clamp down on these "terrorists" and these actions would be pointless, as the majority of the population wouldn't support them. That's what you're not understanding. If these actions happened nationwide they'd be meaningless without popular support. "How on earth can you make those assumptions? Are you really so short-sighted as to assume that people with the commitment to plan and execute this action are just going to sit around the other 364 days a year and not do anything? This comment of yours was almost too ignorant to acknowledge, unless you can somehow prove that no one involved does anything else "productive" with their time. " My assumption came from what I've seen of these people's politics. They tip dumpsters over in the streets like it's going to change something, then they have a May Day picnic while the biggest demo in the history of Milwaukee is taking place. It doesn't seem like they're able to do anything right. "In conclusion, your comments suggest you know very little about movement building or solidarity." I know a great deal about "movement building" and "solidarity". It seems like the people that executed this action know absolutely nothing about class politics or how "movement building" works with respect to them. If they did they wouldn't have been picnicking on May Day. If you would like to get involved in an organization that's making a difference I suggest that you get involved with the Iraq Freedom Congress. Check them out.  http://www.ifcongress.com  http://www.freewebs.com/ifc-usa KC> Homepage:: http://www.ifcongress.com Good work... 22.03.2007 - 04:59 Thank you for raising eyebrows. In a city where the police are racist and violent... In a city filled with crime and segregation... In a city dying for a movement in any direction... Thank you. I am traveling at the moment, and learning great things to bring home, and I cant wait to be back. Peaceful or violent, Young or old, These "idiots" are the true Heartbeat of Milwaukee. As the general comment-leaver sits in suburbia full of rage twards anything different than their beer and sausage platter, TIVO, H2, 2.5 kids and a perfect little community with no black people, We are the kids struggling to pay for school on our own. We are the kids without healthcare. We are the kids living off of your dumpsters and thrift store donations. We actually LIVE in the city that you drive 1.5 hrs to work in every day. not by choice, but by circumstance, we live in poverty with crime pushing us closer to the edge. We have no time to sit idle infront of a TV that tells us how to live. We are lucky to even have electricity sometimes. But we have faith and love for the broken community we live in. We actually live in it. We dont just tell people we live there because no body knows where the fuck Pewaukee is. Good or bad, this is the movement that is getting stronger everyday. It is more than a bunch of angry UWM students, It is a nation that is unhappy with the decisions that big businesses are deciding for us. We are angry kids in Chicago, San Francisco, Orlando, Portland, Denver, New Orleans, New York, Houston, LONDON, MUNICH, TIJUANA, EVERYWHERE. Global Equality doesnt happen by destroying countrys under false pretenses, It starts by people taking action with everyone in mind. not paying public officials to pass bills making it easier to increase production. Thanks again to all. If it werent for you, there would still be people that never knew what MKE INDYMEDIA was. even if they are angry, they are 1 step closer to the life-changing news that is left out of the papers and TV shows every day. wouldnt you like to know...> Solidarity from Europe 22.03.2007 - 06:59 It's inspiring to see this kind of direct action spreading. Masters wage war on common people all around the world, then of course we'll try and stop it immediately. That's what common people do. I'm not surprised by, but yet I'm disappointed with how loyal citizens in their privileged existence bash common folks, trying to marginalise us, our stories and our actions. But I'm not blaming anyone, since I too have had to beat that cop out of my head once before I managed to break free from the confines of citizenship, from the loyalty to our masters' Empire. The Empire of course promises 'security' to those who limit their protests according to Empires terms - but that security is false. First of all, the Empire does not protect its citizens from some external threat: more than anything, it protects citizens from *itself*. Whoever submits to serve the Empire, is under its paternal authority - and woe to those who refuse that authority. Secondly, all Empires are materially and spiritually unsustainable: they and their worldview destroy the ecological basis of their own existence. I'm asking all you loyal citizens to reject your citizens' rights and responsibilities, since after all they work against our common existence, freedom and peace, dividing us against our self. Wearing a mask is a wise thing to do. Before modern ages, the Empire was not interested in our identities, we were an undifferentiated mass in their view. Modernisation signaled the birth of political police, files and records of individual citizens, photographs, id-cards, classification, individualized assessment, surveillance and control. We should definitely reclaim our anonymity in relation to the ruling classes. What we need is a break from the old routine. Toby> selling books (response to previous comment) 22.03.2007 - 11:27 Dear KC, what does the bookmobile have do with this? "Oh, and this is a little off topic, but why does the burned book mobile sell Che books? Do they not know that Che killed anarchists? And what do they do with the money they earn? Do they actually put it to a cause or do they just keep it like some petty-bourgeois scum that they probably are? My bet's on the latter." Since you asked, the bookmobile sells che books because they were donated to us to sell. As a member of the collective, I can say that I don't find all that much of what che wrote to be that interesting or valuable other than his writings on guerrilla warfare. I don't know anything about him killing anarchists. I'm sure he would have killed anarchists for stalin (as many communists did) if he had lived in spain during the spanish civil war instead of south america. Whether he did or not doesn't really matter, his politics are still rather unacceptable to me (being that he was an authoritarian socialist who thought he knew better how peoples lives should be lived than the people who lived them). The money that can be earned from selling books at half off of the list price is very little or more often is in the negative. We generally lose money and put our own money into the project to keep it going. We are able to sell books at half of the list price by ordering some things wholesale and others we get a 40 percent discount for being a distributer. On every book that we sell that we bought for 40 percent off, we lose 10 percent of the value plus shipping. This is not a good business model. What we do actually make goes back into buying more books and printing out copies of things for free literature. Thanks for the shout out. I challenge you to start a better local distro in Milwaukee. I'd find it hard to believe that people would want to read a bunch of boring communist lit though. I know because we have a hard time even selling the che book that was donated to us. The fact that you mention us means that we're successful and I find that pretty encouraging. back on topic... We will be setting up a donation bin for the legal funds of those arrested on monday at our events in the future. a member of the BBMC> hey kc 22.03.2007 - 11:41 hey kc, i disagree with the majority of your comments but lets be honest, you'll never be convinced. it wuld be a waste of my time to debate you on it. i would like to point out however that the may day picnic started in the afternoon last year while the massive immigrants rights march was held in the morning. i'm fairly sure everyone in attendence to the picnic went to the march in the morning aside from the high schoolers who joined us from riverside high. feel free to criticize but at least get your facts straight before you do so. ARA kid> Morons 22.03.2007 - 15:57 I suppose you should never underestimate the power of confused, angry, stupid people in large groups. "Hey, let's vandalize a recruitment center, that'll surely bring us out of Iraq!" ...Morons. This "protest" has almost as much impact as a 12 year old throwing a temper tantrum and going around paintballing street signs... Truth> Good try 22.03.2007 - 19:30 Good try guys. It looks like you successfully broke through that first pane of glass, and might have even put some scratches on that second pane of glass. Dang those fricken double paned energy saver windows, ha ha. Maybe next time you should hit the weightroom before you hit the window. Marine> Calling the Cops? Surely you jest. 22.03.2007 - 22:07 To: Carl RE: Big Momma Quite frankly, I have never called the cops, and I never will. As Quentin Crisp said: "However low a man sinks he never reaches the level of the police." AND "There is no situation so serious that it won't become worse with the presence of a police officer." Why do I think you are a police officer? See you in the streets Bro, Big Mama Big Mama> Dismissing the Use of Force is Ridiculous 23.03.2007 - 08:31 No single action will end the war, and everyone ought to know that. That's precisely why I find all of these "Gee, did breaking windows end the war?" comments to be pretty idiotic. No, it didn't. But it's a step. And if that step were repeated around the country, we'd be all that much closer to achieving a U.S. withdrawal. Marches, sit-ins, petitions, etc. are all important. But equally important is ensuring that your movement has some teeth. When did the Left forget that? The question that has to be asked here is simple: are any of you who oppose this action honestly naive enough to believe that being right or reasonable is enough for people to listen to you? Anyone who was in the streets, working their asses off to prevent this war from ever occuring, knows better. "Temper tantrums" have their place. Hell, without them, we'd still be under Britain's heel. Makhno> first step? OK, what's next? 23.03.2007 - 11:26 makhno: OK, so what's the next step? face it, the kids who did this don't have a next step. Most of them have already gone on record saying they didn't even intend for the window breaking, etc., to happen. and please explain to me how kids doing this all over the country would to lead to any real change. Now, don't get me wrong. I hate this war and the people waging it and I want it over yesterday. But I have almost as much hate for vandals who think they're more than that. All the talk of "comrades" in posts above is a joke. There's no strategy, no plan. There's no outreach, no follow up, no nothing. There's broken glass and neato pictures full of smoke and a bunch of kids with DC tickets. Period. I've done enough political work, socially acceptable and otherwise, to recognize what's going on here. And also enough to recognize that even well-coordinated, well-managed political efforts have trouble with follow-up after an "event." I see nothing in the behavir of these kids, or the postings above, to make me think this is any more significant or politically meaningful than a fart in the wind. If I'm wrong, show me. Explain what happens next to build on what has come before. beenthere> Great brittan 23.03.2007 - 13:01 If this was like the revolutionary war against britan you terrorists would leave the country in the end. by all means... Leave no one's stopping you. if you're looking for places to go I hear The west bank is nice this time of year, or how about the congo? Guy> now you've done it 23.03.2007 - 13:43 I didn't want to get involved but you ignorant folks have made me. guy: i guarantee you that during the revolutionary war i would have been on the side of the states. you see any occupied nation deserves the right to self determination. this is why i side with the iraqis who are working their hardest to kick a colonial power out of their country. in turn if someone invaded this country tommarrow i would fight until they left or i died. for beenthere: the next step is building a movement that is more worried about accomplishing the goal of guaranteeing that iraqis have control over their own nation than about shit talking other people working towards that goal. when everyone wakes up in the mornings and asks themselves, "how can i personnally do all that i can to make sure the occupation of iraq comes to an end," not only will we be more successful, but we will not have a holier than thou attitude anymore. I have no idea what your organizing past has been but if you are working toward the same goals as i am i will not say you are doing wrong because you approach it in a different way than me. please extend the some courtesy. ARA kid> I Liked "Fight Club" Too...But Seriously... 24.03.2007 - 23:23 "Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent." Asimov said that. 4000> waiting 25.03.2007 - 04:35 big mamma and tony, I'm still waiting for a responce on what you would think about living in countries where you can't say what you want, since America is o so Horrible. And don't worry about bringing up when I said all your after is attention, I already am counting on that short little post, so try ot bring something a bit more creative. ~the guy who still thinks your a bunch of burned out hippies and angry highschoolers ~scotch scotch> ARA Kid -- still waiting.... 26.03.2007 - 09:09 ARAkid: your response reminds me of the old joke about how to become a billionaire and never pay taxes. Step 1 is "get a billion dollars...." If your "next step" is "building a movement," you are demonstrating that you have no grasp of strategy, tactics or politics beyond thumping your own chest and wondering why the masses aren't following you. That's bnot a next step. That's a life's ambition. I'm still waiting to hear what concrete action will follow the glorious liberation of the recruiting center, in a way that actually affects the issues you claim to care about. Here's a little walk down memory lane for you. Years back I was working security at a march in another city. There was a large contingent of violent right wing counter-protesters and the cops weren't helping, so we were busy trying to keep the sides separated. Some sweet young thing on our side got the idea that we should link arms with out backs to the right wingers, makiong a human shield. That sounds fine, I said, but no way am I doing that. I got called all sorts of ridicuklous names but when the right wingers surged, it was the guys watching them, with their hands free, that turned the tide and pushed them back. A bunch of the linked-arm folks got their head smacked open. (nothing serious fortunately). See, I resisted the organizing and leadership of my comrades because it was clear to me that they had no clue about the situation we were in and no practical experience dealing with that dynamic. I feel the same way about you guys. You talk like you're on the barricades but your actions, and the emptiness of your rhstoric, tells me your just starry-eyed dreamers. You want respect? Go earn some. beenthere> ok been there 26.03.2007 - 11:50 you have no idea of the expereinces of any people involved. nor do you know that people involved do not organize other things. this concrete next step you want? i don't have it. no one in the anti-war movement has it. this is why this war continues even though the movement against it is huge. my solution? walk while asking. it's a zapatista saying. it means that we can try everything but the point is that we try. ARA kid> it is very dark out 26.03.2007 - 12:22 it is very dark out. you should be doing homework or sleeping. for shame. mike is my name> yay! 26.03.2007 - 12:58 to all my wonderful friends, fuckin beautiful! peace love and fuckin anarchy! truly inspirational... britches> truly, why do you care?1 26.03.2007 - 15:53 To all the people that don't like or don't understand what happened on M19 I'd just like some clarity about why you have your undies in such a bundle? Seriously, why does it matter to you what happened at the recruiting center? I'd really like to see the Madison skinheads go away, (far, far away), but why don't you stay on one side of the street and the anarchists can stay on their side. Let's try to see the "other" point of view~! Most of the comments that are so negative, people don't even take the time to try and learn the anarchist's thoughts. It's sad! Most of us are against this war and we all have to do what we feel is right to make a change and if that's getting the public noticing then that's great! In solidarity with the Wisconsin 21 and all the others for that matter! curious> If you walk while asking... 27.03.2007 - 08:25 ...and you don't know where you're going, you're just gonna hit a wall. Please don't misunderstand. I'm not just being a troll here. I am trying to determine whether there's a thought process guiding the people who claim the recruiting station trashing as a victory. And frankly,. I don't see one. You're right, I have no idea what the people involved may be organizing. That suggests that whatever their activities, they haven't done much outreach, as I am well-acquainted with the community and always on the lookout for real political activism. If you don't reach out, don't be surprised when nobody's got your back. beenthere> reach out and touch me 27.03.2007 - 12:06 There's no way to know exactly who was involved in what happened at the recruiting center, so how do you know they aren't involved? And there are lots of projects going on in Milwaukee... with plenty of outreach, from what I've seen... I don't know how you're missing them? some 80's band> dumb fucks. 27.03.2007 - 12:26 stupid ass little fucks. im glad you all got arrested. you deserved it. way to fight violence with violence. goooood one guys, good one. dykeass.> look buddy 27.03.2007 - 14:02 hey been there, if ou just want to talk shit go somewhere else. if you actually want to have a conversation we can do that. there are alot of projects going on in milwaukee that are having alot of success. if you say that you can't find any then you are choosing to ignore them and we have no reason to continue talking. ARA kid> to "dykeass" (clever) 27.03.2007 - 16:11 The protest was against imperialist war, not violence, you idiot. Nestor Glock-mo'> you call this talking? 28.03.2007 - 08:56 ARA Kid, this is not talking. That implies some give and take. It's me asking you, several times now, for some details about how the glorious trashing of the recruiter actually accomplished something, connects to something bigger and more important than making you feel like a big bad political force to be reckoned with. And it's you responding with empty rhetoric about needing to do something, anything. Now, I must admit, I was impressed you had the guts and clarity of vision to admit you have no idea what the next concrete step is. That much self-awareness puts you ahead of most of the self-anointed ninja warriors I have met. But then you screwed it up with that crap about walking while asking. As if action by itself translates into effective action. That's just pathetic. And politically, it's useless. I have grown tired of this. You want someone to throw flowers at your feet for being so brave and daring and politically effective. And it ain't gonna be me. Have a nice, if inconsequential, life. beenthere> ok been there 28.03.2007 - 19:08 I have my doubts as to your effectiveness as an organizer. why you might ask? because you're an asshole. that's counter revolutionary. ok, well i'll tell you what, this thursday there will be a panel at 5 in room 191 of the uwm union, it will cover ttactics with-in the anti-war movement. if you care to move beyond talking shit and into a real conversation that would be a good place to do it. though, being that your ego makes you refuse to listen to anyone at all i'm willing to bet you'll skip it. ARA kid> Blind Nationalism 28.03.2007 - 22:33 We are under the Bush Regime, who has already packed the supreme court to overthrow the balance of power in this country. Say goodbye to your rights folks... We're talking about a regime that opposes Roe v. Wade and will do anything to deny womyn of birth control and abortion. Soon the Tinker Decision will be overturned denying students first ammendment rights, now that the case is going up to the newly packed courts. We are talking about a regime that is openly torchuring people and justifying it. We're talking about a regime that is having built camps in Taylor, TX to detain immigrants without due process, and not only immigrants but potentialy (in times of "crisis") political prisoners.  http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/080107americangulag.htm This report was NOT made by a leftist, but a truth-seeker named Alex Jones. He opposes communists and anarchists alike. I disagree with his stance on communism. Last but not least we're waging war on Iraq, a country that did nothing to us. Yes, you can talk and rant all you want about what The government of Iraq did to it's people before the U$A came in, "liberated" them. But the U$A government (who "liberated" Iraq) backed Pinochet who rounded up anyone suspected of any kind of dissent and threw them in a stadium and torchered and killed them. Yes, the same government that overthrew many more democraticly elected leaders world wide. During the attempted coup in Venezuela, the U$A government called it a victory for democracy. That was right before the working class of Venezuela took a stand and put Hugo Chavez back in power. That was a true victory for democracy!!! McEmpire runs the world. An empire built on the backs of slaves and sexism/racism/homophobia has for well over a century waged imperialist wars all over the world. That very empire is currently waging a bloody war (with other countries in their sights) and torchuring people. Prison camps are being built on U$A soil. So go ahead and complain about smashed winows on the recruitment center on the eastside of Milwaukee. It just shows how blind you are to the entire buildings smashed by U$A bombs. Until this bourgeois "democracy" is overthrown and given a taste of the poison they spread to the rest of the world, I will suport anyone who takes any action against the system. Want to know where to find me? Look at any point in History. Where there is a struggle against injustice I am there. I am everywhere. I am Attentater. In struggle, Communista potential attentater> I was going to just walk away... 29.03.2007 - 12:11 ... but I have to say a couple last things: 1 - While it may be hard for you to grasp, many of us who work for a living would be unable to attend a meeting that begins at 5 p.m. Nice bit of outreach there. 2 - What makes you think for a second that I am in the least interested in organizing with the likes of you? You got 21 of your peeps arrested at your last action. You know nothing of politics or tactics and, judging by the number of people who have said publicly that they attended the recruiter action and had no idea that the violence was coming, you aren't interested in leading anyone anywhere. 3 - It is highly amusing to be called an asshole for calling you out. Your contention that I must therefore be a lousy organizer is as lacking in substance as everything else you have espoused on this poor board. My advice to you is never to join a serious labor union. Your skin is way too think to be of any use. I don't hate, you, kid. Really. I wish you well. I hope you and your comrades figure out some ways to make a real difference. But I have no respect for you, based on what you have shown here, and I don't want to come play in your yard. I have my own work to do. And that, is that. beenthere> well... 29.03.2007 - 13:25 ok buddy, i wasn't "inviting you to my yard." i was inviting you to a discussion on tactics that will have a diversity of opinions including those of very well established organization. hey, i definately understand working. tell ya what, if you're working second shift there's no way you can make it, but if you get off at five it'll still be going on. the reason for the timing is that amy goodman is speaking tonight at 7. ARA kid> Ever Towards Allness's Emergence 03.05.2007 - 05:19 organize! Curt, No, pro-war people in general fear the educational matrix, and vice versa. We may currently have a pretty acute condition, but it is an ancient relation. btw, can you spell there? or feces? Proud (neo)Conservative, The Army cannot give to me something they cannot take away. You are used to my under-representation, spoiled, and no conservative at all. Just try and see how much protection my rights need, your "representatives" have already claimed to have taken most of the ones i'm using, come and get them. Hey, Brat, What's the army gonna do about terrorists if they do blow up UWM? get out the junior detective badges and lock up and torture all surviving students and employees? It's a police job, soldiers police up cig butts and candy wrappers, and blow shit up, that's how we train. Face it sibling, in any empire, soldier kills, police protect (if they feel like it). The Man, Apparently you are unaware that these kids tend to have less regard for the opinion of "liberal" Democrats than you do. SCANNER, The kids you're talking about go to Harvard, MIT, Yale, Marquette, and Madison, the one's we're discussing here go to UWM. Folk what threw poop, and pascifists all pissed off about it, Property destruction is not violence! and power will concede nothing without disruption. Targeted, critical, nonlethal destruction can be a critical part of nonviolenct resistance. That said, a broken window does not constitute such a disruption by itself. I agree that few real social changes occur without disruption. From Gandhi to MLK no major pacifist movement has made progrees without being the prefered arm of a more threatening movement for power to make a deal with. The mob riots of India and our central cities could not negotiate process improvement, and the organized pacifists did not sufficiently endanger power relations to force change. Neither the Black Panthers nor the pacifists of the civil rights movement had both the power to negotiate and the power to impel negotiation, it required both to force mainstream racist USians to change thier governance, behavior, and beliefs. I think most will agree that mass strikes are that kind of disruption. Most of us also, right or wrong, agree that a massive general strike is not a currently viable solution. One who has infinite patience might well argue that creating conditions for a massive general strike by educating the populace is what we need to do. Those aware of environmental and technological trends, and science and human cultural evolution generally, know we cannot afford infinite patience. Clearly alternatives to past strategies must be created and used. i feel i need not discuss the need to transcend using violent methods to transcend violent methodologies. I agree that media coverage is not effectively garnered by passive protest, but it accomplishes many other things, such as organization, communication, community, good times, education and the congress of ideas and information. Not the least important of these is presenting a more palatable alternative to more militant disruption. I have learned that few people have enough respect for their counterparts in this equation, but increasingly violently opposed radical movements have seperate, but related, electoral, social work, and military wings. I think this creates too much internal tension and external blame games; such wings of the movement have little cause to identify with each other or to work towards the same goals respectfully. Indeed this may well be the only real option, identify with each other to work towards the same goals respectfully, but walk, each of us the path(s) we are compelled to. I adamently do not believe that important work in any of these spheres requires major media coverage, in my opinion important work will create good media. I can understand however that many do not feel able to make real progress without the media cult's participation. So, if the objective is to get covered as news, it is fair to say that doing the same old boring thing is not a good tactic. Breaking windows is no newer than marching, and throwing poop goes much further back than either. Creativity and humor is something that i think we can all agree is a great media cult method. Broken windows would slow the recruitment if we could break every one of them, every week, but no one individual or group will ever be able to plan, coordinate, or persist long enough in this. I do not have a problem with one broken window, even though I do not want to be associated with it. My problem is with the injection of thoughtful angry humor, which i generally advocate to the utmost. My problem is with the public perception of human solid waste as such a device. I am even ok that someone explored this avenue of action, but i hope they are finished with that exploration. This news coverage, for many committed lifetime organized peace activists, falls into the catagory of "with friends like that who needs enemies". The actual motives were laudable, and so was most of the reasoning, in my opinion. I don't quite agree, but i see valid theory behind the concepting of this. One major mistake was made however in final assembly of this action. Major media may well drive public opinion, but it is also so driven. The major media have little control over the public perception of throwing poop, they must play to that public perception which is the same perception thier owners would love to portray peace activism within. Throwing poop is something apes and children do (never mind that we are apes and some participants were minors). I do not want to throw poop (as much as it is just whimsey, and a lot deeper than most think, i like poop art, it can be the most visceral and real of mediums, but it is a rarified concept, most don't get it.) as a political device in this context, and i do not want it done for a cause i've worked for all of my life. It's not that poop itself is so problematic (to me it's just poop), but that as a political message it does worse than say nothing, it says "I'm a poop". This is not my fault, and i do not care to have it be this way, but in case you've missed it we live in a fucked up culture where the best of motives can have the worst of results, and values extant in the physical world are immaterial. I do not consider that a reason for inaction, but for considered action. I am sure that this action was considered beforehand, and will still be long after I've forgotten it. I think that many could learn from this action. i hope, and suspect, it's architech(s) are first among them. Nonetheless, agree or not, if you hurt no one, and are aiming at the pentagon, then i got your backs if i get half a chance; please find a statement that is a little more clear than poop before that. If you want to fuck shit up, throw stuff at cops, or just break windows, i can understand, but please do not do it anywhere near pacifists. Force the fascists to use provacatuers. If you're a pacifist shot for being near an anarchist, are you sure it wasn't a fascist mercenary? It's becoming a pretty steady pattern. Myself? i'm pledged to nonviolence, for it is one of the Green Party's 10 key values. Both Anarchism and Pacifism are informative bodies of thought, amongst many others, for me. I believe reaching consensus is more important than individual acts. I believe the fabric of reality is itself a consensus. How many elections will we allow to be stolen? Living things are losing the class war to our own archaic social machinery!!! What is happening in Iraq enrages me, i expect some of us to act out that rage and experience the empowering liberation it can achieve. One may also expect that occasionally some youth will take ill advised action, that it may be very subjective what is well advised, that some good new ideas are needed, and that youth is likely to arrive at a few. Meanwhile our troops commit wholesale slaughter of innocents, and our taxes pay for death squads. 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